2001 Prius transmission failure

is an 01 an "old" car? is going back into loan debt worth it? the prius is the first car we've owned that's less than 10 years old. we stuck $2k into our 18 year old car and will get at least another 100k out of it. currently has 168k on the car/140k on the engine and trans. we've been buying, fixing, and selling 18-20 year old cars for almost 5 years with no net operating cost until the day one got smashed while parked.

it's a matter of perspective i guess. and whether the dealer has their di-ag straight.

 

is an 01 an "old" car? is going back into loan debt worth it? the prius is the first car we've owned that's less than 10 years old. we stuck $2k into our 18 year old car and will get at least another 100k out of it. currently has 168k on the car/140k on the engine and trans. we've been buying, fixing, and selling 18-20 year old cars for almost 5 years with no net operating cost until the day one got smashed while parked.

it's a matter of perspective i guess. and whether the dealer has their di-ag straight.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(pkamm @ Sep 12 2007, 05:48 PM) [snapback]511596[/snapback]</div>

Did you call a second dealer and ask how much to replace a transaxle? Or did you call another dealer and ask what to do about a P3009 leak detected error code?

I would BRING the car to another dealer and have them diagnose it.

The car is running? Turn the music up and drown out the hum and drive it until it dies. Start saving your money. You can pay to have it fixed then. And maybe it will be the transaxle and maybe it will be something else.

I don't throw good money at some morons hunting expedition.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(pkamm @ Sep 12 2007, 05:48 PM) [snapback]511596[/snapback]</div>

Did you call a second dealer and ask how much to replace a transaxle? Or did you call another dealer and ask what to do about a P3009 leak detected error code?

I would BRING the car to another dealer and have them diagnose it.

The car is running? Turn the music up and drown out the hum and drive it until it dies. Start saving your money. You can pay to have it fixed then. And maybe it will be the transaxle and maybe it will be something else.

I don't throw good money at some morons hunting expedition.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Sep 12 2007, 10:28 PM) [snapback]511714[/snapback]</div>

No, I actually asked for a quote on a transaxle replacement. (I find it interesting that the new quote was for a new transaxle; not a rebuilt one.) I gave no error code. Good point. The car still drives, and the dealer is only 15 miles away. I may take it in for a second diagnosis. Where I live, a 1 hour diagnosis cost $95.00-- perhaps I can have this waived at the second dealer who may be anxious to get positive exposure.

Speaking of exposure, I believe I will emphasize to the 2nd dealer that I am chronicling my experience online at several websites; both Prius-based and general consumer-based sites. I'm thinking that the prospect of relatively wide exposure may influence their integrity in both diagnosis and repair costs.

Toyota corporate is involved now, but they seem to have some formulaic approach to these things. The guy I have been speaking to doesn't know the difference between MG1 or MG2 and a transaxle. I'm guessing he's the first line of buffer. He also seems to waiver between telling me that he's the decision-maker and that it's up to the regional manager and the service manager at the dealership.

Like I said, this is feeling like a shellgame.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Sep 12 2007, 10:28 PM) [snapback]511714[/snapback]</div>

No, I actually asked for a quote on a transaxle replacement. (I find it interesting that the new quote was for a new transaxle; not a rebuilt one.) I gave no error code. Good point. The car still drives, and the dealer is only 15 miles away. I may take it in for a second diagnosis. Where I live, a 1 hour diagnosis cost $95.00-- perhaps I can have this waived at the second dealer who may be anxious to get positive exposure.

Speaking of exposure, I believe I will emphasize to the 2nd dealer that I am chronicling my experience online at several websites; both Prius-based and general consumer-based sites. I'm thinking that the prospect of relatively wide exposure may influence their integrity in both diagnosis and repair costs.

Toyota corporate is involved now, but they seem to have some formulaic approach to these things. The guy I have been speaking to doesn't know the difference between MG1 or MG2 and a transaxle. I'm guessing he's the first line of buffer. He also seems to waiver between telling me that he's the decision-maker and that it's up to the regional manager and the service manager at the dealership.

Like I said, this is feeling like a shellgame.

 

Suggest you look up one of the indies -- artsautomotive.com,
lusciousgarage.com, patsgarage.com -- and see if any are near enough
to you to be practical. These are folks who *understand* the hybrid
systems and how to really get down and dirty on the diagnosis. There
may be others at this point, but those are the most prominent now.
.
_H*

 

Suggest you look up one of the indies -- artsautomotive.com,
lusciousgarage.com, patsgarage.com -- and see if any are near enough
to you to be practical. These are folks who *understand* the hybrid
systems and how to really get down and dirty on the diagnosis. There
may be others at this point, but those are the most prominent now.
.
_H*

 

My 2004's transaxle was replaced at 46,000 miles. The car now has 68,000. I'll probably trade it in for a non-hybrid before 80,000. I am starting to think that by 100,000 all the money saved on gas will have been spent in expensive repairs.

 

My 2004's transaxle was replaced at 46,000 miles. The car now has 68,000. I'll probably trade it in for a non-hybrid before 80,000. I am starting to think that by 100,000 all the money saved on gas will have been spent in expensive repairs.

 

drive axle (half shaft) or transaxle (PSD/MG1/MG2 unit)? they're very different things.

j, i do feel for ya that you've had issues with your car. but a refurb mfd would have cost you about $450, the brake issue was a cheap-fix wiring issue, and whatever trans issue you had was covered under powertrain warranty. where are the expensive repairs?

 

drive axle (half shaft) or transaxle (PSD/MG1/MG2 unit)? they're very different things.

j, i do feel for ya that you've had issues with your car. but a refurb mfd would have cost you about $450, the brake issue was a cheap-fix wiring issue, and whatever trans issue you had was covered under powertrain warranty. where are the expensive repairs?

 

Get a used transaxle. I would not put in a new one. They do not fail that rapidly, so a used one should get you another 50-100k miles. By then you will be ready for a new car anyway.

Why does everyone always take their car to the dealer? They charge too much per hour and always want to use expensive OEM parts. A good used tranny is the way to go in this situation.

You are not going to get much of a price difference by shopping dealers.

Call a parts dismantler and get a recommendation for someone who would install a used Prius tranny.

If you go used, I bet you could get this repair done for under $2k.

 

Get a used transaxle. I would not put in a new one. They do not fail that rapidly, so a used one should get you another 50-100k miles. By then you will be ready for a new car anyway.

Why does everyone always take their car to the dealer? They charge too much per hour and always want to use expensive OEM parts. A good used tranny is the way to go in this situation.

You are not going to get much of a price difference by shopping dealers.

Call a parts dismantler and get a recommendation for someone who would install a used Prius tranny.

If you go used, I bet you could get this repair done for under $2k.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Winston @ Sep 13 2007, 04:41 PM) [snapback]512160[/snapback]</div>

Most non dealer repair places wont touch the Hybrid for anything other than routine maintenance. When I worked an a mechanic, there were certain vehicles we wouldn't touch, and would send them right to the dealer, mainly because to diagnose them, it required special equipment we were not willing to purchase due to the cost. It doesn't make good financial sense to spend a large amount of cash on tools that may only be used once. We called them tool box queens.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Winston @ Sep 13 2007, 04:41 PM) [snapback]512160[/snapback]</div>

Most non dealer repair places wont touch the Hybrid for anything other than routine maintenance. When I worked an a mechanic, there were certain vehicles we wouldn't touch, and would send them right to the dealer, mainly because to diagnose them, it required special equipment we were not willing to purchase due to the cost. It doesn't make good financial sense to spend a large amount of cash on tools that may only be used once. We called them tool box queens.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Winston @ Sep 13 2007, 05:41 PM) [snapback]512160[/snapback]</div>

They don't. Once the warranty is up, the great majority of people go elsewhere. And this includes hybrid owners.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Winston @ Sep 13 2007, 05:41 PM) [snapback]512160[/snapback]</div>

A shop is very expensive to run, and believe it or not, $100 per hour labor won't make the owners rich. That's a serivce charge, not a wage, and it has to pay for a lot.

Overselling is the more common tactic that dishonest shops use to drive up an invoice. And as for OEM parts, those are often the only quality parts available. Twenty years ago, i wouldn't have said that, but we live in a different world.

With regard to hybrid components, OEM parts are usually the only parts available, period. The local parts store can't order you a traction motor for a Prius.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Winston @ Sep 13 2007, 05:41 PM) [snapback]512160[/snapback]</div>

They don't. Once the warranty is up, the great majority of people go elsewhere. And this includes hybrid owners.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Winston @ Sep 13 2007, 05:41 PM) [snapback]512160[/snapback]</div>

A shop is very expensive to run, and believe it or not, $100 per hour labor won't make the owners rich. That's a serivce charge, not a wage, and it has to pay for a lot.

Overselling is the more common tactic that dishonest shops use to drive up an invoice. And as for OEM parts, those are often the only quality parts available. Twenty years ago, i wouldn't have said that, but we live in a different world.

With regard to hybrid components, OEM parts are usually the only parts available, period. The local parts store can't order you a traction motor for a Prius.

 

Y'all should go right now and read this:
http://artsautomotive.com/PriusMG2.htm
proves that internal transaxle parts *can* be gotten, and that
rebuild work is accessible to the independent mechanic. They
haven't done the full failure analysis yet, but this should put
another nail into the "have dealer replace with new" coffin.
.
_H*

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hobbit @ Sep 14 2007, 03:27 PM) [snapback]512666[/snapback]</div>

This is great! And pictures too.

Update:
I've returned from the dealer to get printouts of the error codes and Freeze Frame Data. Apparently, there was an additional Pcode. They told me over the phone a few days ago that there was a P3009. Today, I learned that there was also a P3000 'Battery Control System'.

They made no record of Freeze Frame Data.