10K oil changes are BAD! ??

Beside Toyota 0W-20 I've tried Eneos Sustina 0W-20 and Yacco Lube HY 0W-20.
I've settle down with Yacco mainly because price.
Toyota 0W-20 here is $10.15/l
Eneos 0W-20 is $13/l
Yacco is $8/l

I'm changing it at 8-10k km (5-6k miles).

 

If people really thought this would they continue to buy Toyotas? Nope. At least I wouldn't. (Poor reliability).

Mobil 1 0W-20 Extended Performance. My manual (2012 v) says ILSAC rated oil IIRC. I use a Fram Ultra oil filter. Both oil and filter are rated for 20k mi.

REVVL V+ 5G ?

 

Been there and done that. I completely agree with you that while the family is growing, the cost of cars is likely to increase. Yep, if I didn't have to pay for the cars and kids, I am sure I would be living happy retired life by now. LOL

We have been always two cars family, one smaller commuter car and one large (mini-van or SUV) family/cargo hauler. In general, buying a used car and keeping it running as long as possible will save money, but in the last 7 years or so of crazy market, especially with Prius Prime with huge incentives, switching cars every few years made more economical sense.

That sure is not the case right now. Yes, I can sell my 2021 PP for a big profit but I will not be able to find a car to replace it right now. But our family is now growing smaller, and we can possibly do without a second car. For me having a new car every three years with minimal maintenance (for free if a new Toyota) is more economical than buying a car and keeping it for a long term with frequent maintenance or facing large repair bills down the road.

 

The problem has been linked to some design "flaws" with Toyota like low tensile rings. But that also reduces friction, which gives the engine better efficiency. ¿Anyone else making SUV's that get 40mpg, minivans that get over 35mpg, and cars that get over 50mpg?

Diesels have black oil due to carbon, which both diesel and carbon are lubricants. These are entirely different animals.

 

He is independent now

Math class it was Greater than or Equal for the first, Less than or Equal for the second.

It seems most miss the point. Gen3s and many Toyotas in that era tend to clog up their oil control rings and ruin the engine. The argument is more frequent oil changes will tend to clear those rings better. Its not about the oil quality. If anything its about the fuel and contaminants in the oil after xyz miles. Which also masks the oil consumption for those that think their engine is the unicorn that does not use oil.

 

The pandemic has brought on many changes. With the way things are going I'm actually going in the opposite direction and am getting around to selling the second car, so we'll only have one. If rent goes up even more I may have no choice but to figure out how to survive with no car, which will not easy with family in a town with very little public transportation. At least the kids are teens and can walk or ride bikes like the wife and I. Either that or find a new town to live in.

 

In that case you're good to go with the 10K changes.
Toyota only puts their money on the table for about 150,000 miles, or whenever their titanium-plated super-duper warranty runs out, plus a safety margin.

"required" ?
None at all.
For warranty purposes?
Not much more, but THIS will keep you out of trouble if you have an in-warranty, oil related failure.
API | Latest Oil Categories.

I'm more interested in CAR longevity than oil longevity.

FWIW, I don't agree with exercising and eating right to live longer either, but unfortunately science sorta goes the other way.

SO....we might not "agree" with "science" and after all of the shenanigans with the last dampanic that's completely understandable!
HOWEVER, (comma!)
INSURANCE companies believe in science, which is why they collect blood and perform the health screenings before they underwrite your ability to keep adding candles to your birthday cake.
You wanna know how much money they would save if they didn't have to pay for all that lab work and sending nurses all over the place to poke and prod you?

That's right!
NONE.

Statistically it works the same way with oil.
You can save a little bit of money on the front nine with fewer oil changes, but you might not make it to the 19th hole!

If you're only going to keep the car for 150,000 miles or so, it's not going to matter much WHAT you do.
Not very many cars require new engines before then, even the cheap ones.
The G3's engine is pretty dang good but they did have to fix one major problem (piston rings) and there's another bug in the car that they haven't addressed yet (EGR.)

If (like me) you want to greatly increase your chances of seeing 200,000 miles then the two "OCIs" are core and key:
Oil Change Interval.
Oil CHECK interval.

There's people who check their filters and fluids and there's people that don't.
There's people who diet and exercise, and there's people who don't.

Liars DO figure, but...Figures don't lie.
EITHER kind.....

 

If you look at Fuelly mpg averages for the various 3rd gen years, 2015 the mpg is “slightly” worse, 0.2 mpg comparing to 2011~2014, and 0.1 comparing to 2010. Minor brownie points for Toyota, and knackered engine blocks for their customers.

 

I was comparing to cars both in the past or from other companies. Maybe you won't get the same problem with some other car company doing yearly oil changes, or every 10,000 or 12,000 miles. I think BMW does an oil change every two years or something like that. But there aren't many other cars that get +50mpg. Rings are one of many reasons Toyotas get such good fuel mileage. You could take the pistons out, bore out the oil return holes in the pistons, install higher tensile rings, then do yearly or bi-yearly oil changes and get +200,000 miles out of the engine, but then you'd have worse fuel mileage.

Pick two:

• Yearly oil changes
• Great fuel mileage
• +200,000 engine life

 

My manual says ILSAC rated oil. (2012 v). Running Mobil 1 0W-20 EP and Fram Ultra filter. Both rated for 20k mi. Change yearly less than 5k mi added during that time. (33k mi).

REVVL V+ 5G ?

 

I've editted my previous quote: looked up Fuelly (added link), and the difference was 0.2 mpg. Pretty high price to pay, for such a trivial mpg difference.

 

What are you referring to exactly? The low tensile rings go back since before 3rd gen came out. On my 2006 Prius I have this very same problem.

 

Not sure about when the low-tension piston rings were introduced. Second gens seem to be motoring into the sunset, 200~300K miles, with original engine and only moderate oil consumption.

My sense is the low-tension rings were introduced with the advent of 3rd gen, model years 2010 through partway 2014, before they switched back to a more conventional tension ring set. There is tacit admission that they went too far, in the revised piston rings spec'd in the attachment.

All I'm saying: Toyota was chasing mpg crumbs, 0.2 mpg at best (as evidenced by Fuelly reports), and at a high cost, engines burning copious oil, as early as 100k miles.

Fourth gens also have conventional tension piston rings, and have managed to eclipse third gen mpg anyway.

 

The term "low tension" rings is a misnomer, since the rings are not under any force that tends to pull them apart.

The more appropriate nomenclature would be "low expansion pressure," since the rings expand and applies pressure to the cylinder walls.

Unfortunately not all our technicians understand vectored forces.

 

Yeah, the rings' tendency to spring outwards would be more appropriate description.

 

I prefer the technical term "less sproingy".

 

Gen3s were closer to the end of the oil burning era.

Toyota may not have reacted quickly as they were more focused on increasing mpg of their fleet. The fact that they collaborated with Tesla in 2010 to create the 2012-14 Rav4 EV and created the Prius at all was a testament to their environmental compliance driven by California.

Toyota Excessive Oil Burners

• 2007-2011 Toyota Camry HV (Hybrid)
• 2007-09 Toyota Camry 2.4L (07 Camry is the worst, best 13-15)
• 2009 Toyota Corolla
• 2009 Toyota Matrix
• 2006-10 Toyota RAV4
• 2007-08 Toyota Solara
• 2007-09 Scion tC
• 2008-09 Scion xB
• 2010-14 Prius
• 2005 Avalon V6 (vvti gear)
• 2007-10 Sienna (vvti gear)

 

Which is what they mean when conventionally applied to numeric values.

That math class probably didn't get into comparing the goodness and badness of things like oil change intervals.

But later math classes do get into how you can make use of that kind of notation for other kinds of things.

As long as you define OCI goodness or badness in such a way that:

• every OCI is as good or bad as itself
• if a and b are both OCIs and a is as good as b, then b is as good as a
• if a and b are both OCIs and a is better than b, then b is worse than a
• if a, b, and c are OCIs, a is better than b, and b is better than c, then a is better than c

then it is perfectly cromulent to use < <= >= > on OCIs in the way ETC did.

 

When i got brand new VW Golf back in 2008 it had a bottle of motor oil in the trunk. As a complement from VW Besides Prius we have Honda and Kia and both consume more than Prius. Low tension rings or not, so many cars consume and keep going. It’s great that car industry got rid of the blue smoke at least Appearances are important

 

Toyota didn't just change the rings, the pistons & drain-back holes are different too. And it isn't just gen 3 that sometimes has oil burning, gen 2 also has some cars that burned oil prematurely: My theory on why some Gen 2s consume more oil after 150k miles | PriusChat

Oil consumption is a much bigger issue on Prius Chat than out in the world. But that goes for any problem being magnified on any enthusiast forum.

And Toyota's reputation will do just fine. They were never as saintly as people make them out to be - just ask anyone who blew a head gasket in a 80s/90s 7m Supra/Cressida or 3VZ truck & 4runner. Or who's 5S or 1MZ sludged up with oil in the 90s/00s. Even with those problems, who makes a better car at a similar price? Honda maybe? They've got their own problems (how many 00's Insights & Civic Hybrids are still on the road). KIA or Hyundai? Not with their Theta & Theta II engine failures. GM, Ford or Mopar? Ha!