Featured $100,000 income and $40,000 sales-price limit on EV tax credit

Trivia question....are labor unions allowed to make political contributions?
"Follow the money...."

CWA victim for over 20 years......

 

Absolutely, and I have a problem with the government telling people which politics they have to have on penalty of economic sanctions.

Mandatory union membership is also abhorrent, but I wanted to limit the scope of the discussion to whether it was "fair" for the tax credit to penalize employees that chose not to unionize.

 

There is no way to hide the obvious fact that unions had to be behind the union shop bonus. I don't see why you reward a company that treats their people so badly that they need to organize. I'd think you'd reward the companies that treat their people so well that they don't want a union bringing down efficiency and wages. It was over 40 years ago that the plant I started working at when I went into can making threw out the union. I think it took about three years for our wages to double and they just kept going up. Fast forward to 1998 and I'm supervising electricians & millwrights in the same company. One of the contractor electricians was ragging on one of my electricians about how he was a scab. "Really," says my guy. "How much do you make?" The union guy throws out his chest and says, "$14 an hour." My guy says, "Man, that must suck. I make $21. And the company kicks in 20% on our 401k." (Plus the insurance, vacation, pension plan, etc. that he didn't mention.) Union guy says, "Where do I apply?"

 

Are employees in at will work states really as free to unionize? Would it be fair for the government to dictate a minimum hourly wage requirement in stead? Ford and GM trend to pay more than Honda, Toyota, and Nissan. Foreign automakers pay from $38 to $65 per hour to non-union workers

Passing laws require compromise and the sausage making. I don't mind an add on amount for union shops, because the union is an organized stakeholder that can put pressure on to help pass the bill. I don't care for the amount though. Less for the union, and more for American content(even have a sliding scale for higher percentages) would do more to actually grow the supply lines and jobs within the US.

There is likely an example of things going the other way without the union.

Unions are human constructs, so they can be good or bad. With the past making the management labor relations harder in the US than they need to be.

The real question to consider is what employment would be like without the unions? Corporations and management are fighting to reduce environmental and consumer protections. I don't think they'd take another path with employee protections.

 

There are lots of examples. I could list some. They are companies run by idiots who have no idea how much more profitable they could be with skilled, loyal, happy employees who spend their entire careers with one company, working up through the ranks and learning everything about the business. We had very low employee turnover. One day, I was talking with my boss and a couple other guys and it dawned on me that among the four of us, there was well over 100 years of can making experience. I started at the very bottom and worked my way up to engineering supervisor. They were about to move me to a job I'd always wanted in the engineering department in Colorado where I'd design new systems travel from plant to plant overseeing installations. That's just the time God called my wife and me into full times missions. It was hard to turn that job down!! But I love what I've been doing lately, too.

Then again, before that job that became a career I'd worked for a few companies (union and non-union) that treated their people like dirt. I didn't stay long in those jobs.

 

I have worked at several places where the thoughts were precisely the opposite. Management was always pre-occupied with "new blood." They didn't want to promote workers who had already been at the company for some time because they viewed them as "tainted" or unable to think outside the box. They went so far as to institute HR policies that intentionally made climbing the ladder far more difficult. For example, if you were a journeyman electrician you used to be able to promote to be an electrical supervisor after some years of experience. Management changed the hiring rules so that candidates had to have 5 years of experience and experience in the company did not qualify. They would also require 1 year of supervisory experience, which a journeyman did not have and could not have without leaving the company.

This was a unionized shop, too. The unions supported it because it ensured a constant demand for "new" employees from the union.

 

If people want to work under those miserable and hopeless conditions, more power to them.

 

80% of shops are as described to one extent or another

Diamonds in the rough are sadly rare therefore numerically a lot of folks will work in places that aren’t ideal in every way
a lot of places that are fun and enjoyable to work pay jack squat. I would also add many workplaces shift between good/bad over time and the average amount of time to change jobs is growing beyond 6 months.

Examples of jobs people most enjoy include non-profit and very small businesses which rate high but again can be unstable, with aforementioned low pay. Some find jobs that pay absolutely nothing wonderful.

Priorities

Funny part is a terrible place to work can be a fun place if you have the right coworkers.

 

True dat!! The people you're with can make all the difference in the world.

 

Has anyone noted if the tax credit being retroactive is still in play

https://www.voltequity.com/post/the-clean-energy-for-america-act-and-its-potential-impact-on-tesla

 

Short answer?
It's "in play"....."statistically."

Longer Answer:

Trigger Warning!!! May contain political content!!!

I'm thinking that the BBB plan is going to be highly modified even if it does see the light of day, which as a 20+ year victim of a LABOR union, I'm not unhappy about. If BBB 2.0 ever goes full term and gets delivered, maybe people will be able to get rebates on TESLAs instead of union "assembled" cars with mostly CHICOM content.

Meanwhile?
BBB faces a long rocky climb out of a deep dark hole, since (as it turns out) some people are actually starting to read about it.

Following the least surprising election day in history (if you've been following the news) there are going to be some congress critters who are going to be re-evaluating their career paths.
Also...you only have so many bites of the apple per year in Budget Reconciliation....and Dec 3 is getting bigger and bigger in the windshield, meaning that Americans will get to REDISCOVER that our credit card is maxed out...........again.
What all THAT means is anybody's guess, but the D's might have to either mint some trillion dollar coins, OR use their budget reconciliation on extending the debt limit.

If I'm team R's I'm leveraging the nation's current surly mood towards team D and feeding out lots of rope.

If I'm Team D, I'm passing the trillion dollar infrastructure currently being held hostage, claiming victory, minting 100 $1 trillion coins for Ft Knox (perhaps with Phineas Taylor Barnum on the obverse, and a lollipop on the rear,) pushing back from the table and calling it a night until 2022.
If the $ 1.5t doesn't result in inflation, stagflation, or some other 'flation they can take another whack at BBB.
If it DOES?
They can blame team R (it's a BI-partisan bill!!)

They will still have their B(F)R round in their back pocket to use for another $$$ multi-trillion giveaway if they can find a way NOT to piss off Sinema in the bathroom or at a friend's wedding - or cause Manchin to realize perhaps that he represents the only state in the Union that's Alabama RED with a Blue US Senator.

Remember:
Manchin and Sinema have been giving a lot of moderate critters a lot of cover in the media.


Lots of those fig leaves just got plucked away last night.....

 

Interesting.
Is Elon correct that FORD makes EV's in Mexico? If so would they get US made bonus and Union-made bonus?

 

The Mach-E is made in Mexico. Its plant may not be unionized, but another Mexican plant is. I would think it wouldn't qualify for the US assembled bonus, but it comes down to the specifics of the passed law.

The F150 and Transit have US factories that could make the EV versions when they come out. Same with the Escape PHEV when they start producing them.

 

Fortunately or Unfortunately, the (so-called) 1.2 terra-buck bill made it out of the Lower House, clearing the way for BBB to leave the house with some expensive factory options which might (will) be stripped out in the Upper House, forcing a bounce back to the lower house IF the Parliamentarian umpire doesn't call foul over some non-budget bolt-ons....and IF the next debt limit showdown doesn't change things.....and IF all 50 Senators sign off.

Other than that?

Yeah.
The revised EV tax credit is still good to go.

 

Nope, just the union made bonus, there is also an element that requires the battery to be US made to qualify

given the bill is passed has anyone taken a look to see if it’s retroactive and removes the 200,000 cap in place of qualification percentages?

 

It is not in the infrastructure bill. It is in forms of the build back better bill, but no one knows what that will be in that bill when it passes.
https://electrek.co/2021/11/06/congress-passes-1-2-trillion-infrastructure-bill-12500-ev-tax-credit-still-awaits-passage/

 

I got those two trans-swapped myself.
The $1.2 Trillion will be signed into law. It (allegedly) has some charging station love but no kickbacks for buyers.
Everybody SAYS 1.2 trillion bucks in the same way that folks in media say that they have something “on tape” of that the CBO is “non-partisan”….but this bill (law) was at least scored.

The BBB has not made it out of the house, but rather they have “an agreement” for it to do so.
There is not a fixed Trillion dollar label attached to it, and it faces a rockier path to the White House.

THAT is the one with kickbacks for BEV buyers.
…and Unions.

A Trillion here and a trillion there.
Pretty soon you’re talking about real money?

https://electrek.co/2021/11/06/congress-passes-1-2-trillion-infrastructure-bill-12500-ev-tax-credit-still-awaits-passage/

I haven’t seen any language about unit caps.

 

Per @austingreen the infrastructure deal only contains certain EV benefits mainly such as billions$ for more USA-wide public charging stations. It is the social infrastructure (next) BBB bill that contains a lot more climate spending including EV subsidies.

 

I would say with the rivian IPO today those chargers and grid upgrades that will allow more renewables and reliability should do a lot for plug-in sales 2025-2035. Tesla is already raising prices because demand outstrips manufacturing and only VW and Tesla have really high manufacturing ability for the next few years. In 2030 I doubt we will even need plug-in subsidies.

Other spending in the infrastructure bill was mitigation and money for Plug-in busses that should continue to push battery costs down. I'd clock it at about $30B in environmental spending. Its small compared to the total bill but should provide a good bang for the buck.