I'd give the US auto industry credit for creating a marketing campaign right at the same time as they created a new automotive market segment. The USA seems, from the outside looking in, to be all about marketing. You have a whole city devoted to it.
You are correct, I referred to the vehicles of the 70's as SUV's. What I really meant was more typical gas guzzlers. I have a 73 T-Bird with a 429, and a 77 Lincoln Mark V with a 460. Big gas guzzling land yachts............in the middle of a fuel crisis, they were selling. And back then Pickups were as always selling like hotcakes. My Grandfather bought that 73 T-Bird new. no way was he going to buy a Pinto! Prior to the 73 Bird, he had a 68, and a 64. Personal luxury vehicle as they were termed back then. He was not a rich man, very frugal, his one indulgence was his car. To this day I have that 73 T-Bird, take it to car shows and Cruise nights as a "hobby" car. I also have a 96 Dodge Ram Indy 500 pickup. I bought that new, but it is impractical for daily driving. Our Prius to a certain extent is an indulgence for us. Bought for mileage and the quality. No, not as a personal luxury vehicle, though it is not bad either.
I'm sure this irks Australian members to no end, but here in Canada I can buy a Holden Commodore SS (Pontiac G8) tire shredding beast, *much* cheaper than a person in Australia can I don't get it. After exchange, and shipping it halfway around the geoid, I can buy the car cheaper than a person where it's put together
The cars made by Holden/Vauxhall/Opel are sweet realtive to the North American GM cards. Had they been available earlier through Saturn, then I would have bought Saturn rather than Toyota 8 years ago when I bought my first Echo.
The VW Bus isn't comparable to today's minivan. The current style sliding door, front engined, FWD, car frame Minivan was invented by Chrysler in 1986.
Quite a reach to make it an "invention." VW had sliding doors in the early '60s for some of their commercial versions, and on all of their minivans by '68, 16 years before Chrysler. Who cares whether it is FWD or RWD? It's still a friggin' minivan! VW came out with their small size van in 1950. Only took Chrysler 36 years to copy it.
Ask an automotive historian who they would credit for the popularity of the American minivan...they will say Chrysler. Just like the SUV, historians will credit Ford for creating the SUV genre in America with the Explorer even though Jeep had the Cherokee first and the Grand Wagoneer before that, Chevy had the Suburban for years. It was Ford and the Explorer that took the vehicle type and put it together in a package that appealed broadly to the American consumer at a specific time when there was a demand for that package. Thats why they sold 500,000 Explorers a year at the peak and Jeep never even came close to those numbers. The Cherokee never had the refinement or luxury the consumer was looking for. Same is true of the VW bus, it was crass and unrefined, tiring to drive, unsafe. Chrysler took the concept and put it into a package that created the "American minivan", and its the basic package they created in 1986 everybody else is copying today. Think about it this way, the new VW Routan minivan is a rebadged Chrysler minivan!
There is a difference between "inventing" and getting credit for "making popular". The electric car was "invented" in the 1890's, but who will make it popular?
As posted, "popularized" isn't the same as "invented." And VW sold nearly 5 million of them prior to 1980. Just because it was not popular in the US (though 400,000 is no small potatoes either), that doesn't mean it wasn't popular. Just like Chrysler to fail to look past our shores to see the larger world that is now eating their lunch in the marketplace... Year Total Production 1949 8 1950 8,059 1951 12,003 1952 21,665 1953 28,417 1954 40,199 1955 49,907 1956 62,500 1957 91,993 1958 101,873 1959 121,453 1960 139,919 1961 168,600 1962 180,337 1963 189,294 1964 200,325 1965 189,876 1966 191,373 1967 162,741 1968 253,919 1969 273,134 1970 288,011 1971 277,503 1972 294,932 1973 289,022 1974 224,993 1975 227,087 1976 242,352 1977 208,615 1978 206,840 1979 186,870 TOTAL 4,933,820 I wonder if you actually ever drove one? Sure, a hippymobile that hasn't received any maintenance will drive poorly. But I've owned and driven VW Buses as well as the modern American minivans for years, and simple comfort is hardly a qualification for "invention." Also, the 1976 model, though similar in appearance externally, was internally reinforced such that it met the pasenger car frontal crash standards, even though it was legally a truck and did not have to meet them. The IRS rear suspension eliminated the handling problems. You are relying on urban legend and decades old information. Yes, and it's one of the worst cars VW ever tried to sell. At least VW isn't asking for bail-out money...
Will you read what I post? I'm saying Chrysler invented the AMERICAN minivan. By the very definition, I don't care how popular anything is outside of AMERICA. I have driven a VW bus yes, its nothing like a modern American minivan...or even a 1986 Chrysler minivan. The two vehicles are very different. You mean decades old information about a vehicle that hasn't been sold in over 30 years? I think I'm okay. I've owned VWs...they don't need any help building bad cars IMHO, I will never buy another VW product again, most unreliable and expensive to repair and maintain car I've ever had. I actually quite like the Routan though and unlike other VW stabs at a van, it appeals to the target market. There is just no question that Chrysler invented the popular minivan model that started the American minivan craze. If the VW bus was so influential and popular in America, why did we go for 15 years after they were available without a van? If the Chrysler minivans were so unimportant then why have we not been without minivan models in the US for the 24 years since they came out? Again, read what I write. I totally blasted Chrysler early on in the thread and what I'm saying is not a comparison of Chrysler and VW. VW makes better cars than Chrysler, you'd have to be insane to think they don't. However, VW building a van like vehicle with a rear engine and rear drive that was never really popular with families (families preferred station wagons) in the 60s and Chrysler packaging a different front engined FWD minivan that completely changed what American families wanted to own and drive are two different things. You have to give credit where credit is due, and if Chrysler had not designed and come out with their minivans this entire segment would have been very different. Just google "who invented the minivan?" the responses? Chrysler, overwhelmingly.
Yes, I read your posts, do you? Your actual words were: "They created the minivan." No mention of "popularize" or "in America" in that statement. Now you have backpedaled from "they invented it" to "they popularized a variant of it in a particular market." Doesn't sound so grand, does it? Yeah, 30 years ago. Thanks for confirmig how late to the party Chrysler was. Not the same as "invented the minivan" is it? We didn't. I just showed the air cooled sales figures. VW followed the air cooled models with a series of watercooled models, including the Vanagon (1979 to 1992) and the Eurovan (1990 to 2003), Transporter (2003 -present), and now the (ugh) Routan. Yeah, if it's on the Internet, it must be true, right?
Allrighty then, I'll stand by my statement. Chrysler created the American minivan. Beatnicks were driving VW busses to woodstock and growing pot in the back, but the minivan that families abandoned their station wagons for and that changed the national automotive landscape forever was invented by Chrysler. The minivan that carmakers are selling today, even VW, is a variation on the minivan concept as invented by Chrysler as a FWD, front engined, car platformed van in 1986. The design of the microbus as invented by VW has been abandoned by every carmaker on the planet...including VW who now sells a rebadged CHRYSLER MINIVAN. Am I clear enough about my position? And how much more successful. Oh, the Vanagon and the Eurovan! You definately saw one of those in every driveway like you did and do a Chrysler style minivan. The Transporter? Thats not even sold in the US. Again, we are talking about the AMERICAN minivan. Sorry, there is just no argument that VW created the market segment we consider the American minivan today whether you can bring yourself to give Chrysler credit for something or not.
Here's an interesting read about the history and development of the Chrysler vans: Chrysler minivan history - Dodge Caravan, Plymouth Voyager, and Others And they came out in '83 not '86 as I originally said.
Yes, quite clear: a backpedaling position from "invention" to "popularize in a market segment" after 5 million were made by a prior manufacturer. Thank you.
Yet another thread spins into a black hole, arguing about the number of angels that can dance on the head of a pin. You know what I find that helps in these situations? Mention sheep. Tom
