1.8L starting rattle, knock, events

Let's assume the faulty VVT-i part is fixed, can you ignore the possible damage done during knocking ?

 

I will freak out if that happens to my 2010. Like you said that noise is so severe that damage is definitely happening. Toyota may need to do another recall to replace this faulty part which is certainly causing damage to engines/valves with that terrible knock.

 

Yep that is the noise my car was making. Been in to my UK dealers today who advise there was nothing wrong with the car etc etc. I have since got home and seen this link.

What next? Where next? Is this a recall issue as it isn't really safety related? Though it will knacker your engine.

 

Well the question is now whether people who have not presented this problem for replication at a dealership will nonetheless be allowed to have work done on the car for it.

 

Print out the TSB for the 2ZR-FE engine, take it with you, and show it to the dealer. The repair involves replacing the intake VVT-i controller (gear) with a revised part number (13050-0T011). If he refuses to make the repair (because it doesn't knock when he tests the engine or the TSB is not for the 2ZR-FXE engine), call Toyota and complain.

Note that the problem should only occur with the Priuses manufactured before 2009/07/?? and with the part numbers 13050-0T010 (Made in USA) or 13050-0T022 (Made in China) for the intake VVT-i controller (gear). The good part numbers are 13050-0T011 (revised Made in USA) or 13050-37012 (Made in Japan).

 

In this case we need to keep looking for a cause. My car is in my cold garage now but I bought it in March/10 and doubt it was built as long ago as the previous July. I bet this problem is in cars built after that date...

 

My Prius was built in Jan.2010 and it only happened once, it also happened once with my 08 Prius. I'm still convinced it has to do with unburned fuel left in a cylinder from a very short run of the ICE the day before.

 

Unburnt fuel left in an engine -- a flooded engine -- does not cause knocking, especially with a cold engine. In fact, in a carbureted engine, you pump the accelerator a few times to flood the engine a little bit before you start a cold engine.

If the problem is also happening with the revised 13050-0T011 Made in USA part, perhaps this part is still not good enough as the 13050-37012 Made in Japan part (not available at the US Toyota dealers).

It would be interesting if people on this thread could check their manufacturing dates (that can be found on the placards in the car) of their cars and report if the problem is indeed happening with July 2009 and earlier Gen III Priuses.

 

My Prius was built in July, 2010. It happened once about a week ago as described on post #109.

 

Happened to me twice as described in #127 over a 6 month period Manufacture date is 02/2010 and Toyota does not believe I have the part number identified in this thread so this may be something else. Dealer didn't find anything wrong with it today. I called Toyota; they opened a case for me and the dealer will investigate. Hopefully I'll have more news.

 

I bought mine in June 2009 so it certainly falls in that category. Never had the problem yet and certainly don't want it to EVER happen.

 

But why is it that in all--save perhaps one (granted, I'm only following 1-2 threads but we have a good dozen or more people reporting the issue)--case it has to do with the previous run of the ICE being shut down when it was cold? When I first had it happen it was in the summer and I've since started the car many times without it happening. In the mornings when it starts it's now much colder than it was that summer morning and no issues; I think coldness alone is not a cause for this. It strongly seems related to having previously shut down the car before it was finished warming up.

EDIT: Manufacture date of mine is 02/10, per the black sticker on the door frame of driver's side.

 

Perhaps you've got the 13050-37012 Made in Japan part.

It's also a possiblity that the revised 13050-0T011 Made in USA part is not much better than the original 13050-0T010 Made in USA part.

Perhaps Toyota can determine from the VIN numbers which part was used. They should open an investigation and collect the VIN numbers of people who are having this problem.

 

My 2010 was new in June 2009 with a May build date and I have heard at least 3 times the knocking noise. It has only happens when cold outside(winter). I have not yet had it this winter.

 

Well, let's put it this way: Toyota will probably ignore it. Note the TSB says something like, "brief noise on startup."

It's a tough situation. They'll replace the defective part under warranty, sure, but whatever damage has been done has been done, and that won't be addressed.

Whether that'll be an issue as the miles accumulate is something which no one can say. I'd guess there might, potentially, be problems with the lash adjuster(s) or other reciprocating parts of the drivetrain which are not replaced, IMHO, if there were going to be problems. Worst case, the camshaft. Let's hope not.

And, gosh, it's surprising that it's not bending valve stems, come to think of it.

[sigh]

Who knows why. In any case something is clearly wrong. It's odd to require a workaround that involves ensuring the engine is up to operating temperature before shut down.

Gokhan is right, the parts should be recalled, not fixed piecemeal as Toyota is handling this currently. I mean, the last thing they should want is something like this blemishing one of their flagship brands. It makes for very bad press, especially after the other quality issues Toyota has faced in recent years.

 

By the way, to add to the reports, I also owned a 2008/01-manufacturing-date, NUMMI-made 2009 Corolla with the similar 2ZR-FE engine with the same reported problems for almost three years and 14,000 miles. I sold it recently. It probably had the 13050-0T010 part no. intake VVT-i controller. In LA it hardly ever goes below 40 F, even in the winter.

I never had the knocking problem.

I should also mention that I always did the oil change myself in my garage at the recommended 6-month/5,000-mile interval, using Mobil 1 0W-20 oil. This ensured that the oil change was done in the best way possible, with no problems. Since the VVT-i controller is controlled by the oil, improper oil change (wrong grade, not draining the oil completely, overfilling, forgetting to change the filter, other mistakes, etc.) might also play a role in this issue.

 

There's something about this which perhaps is combining temperature and perhaps the contraction and expansion rates of dissimilar metals and the heating/cooling cycle of the engine and the way the engine shuts down by advancing the intake cam fully and retarding the exhaust cam fully, to create that knocking noise.

Thinking about what I said before: Maybe that's why they're not recalling, try to keep it under the radar. But if they're smart, they'd be like, "Oh, sure, we'll take care of that right away" even if they can't recreate the noise at that moment.

I mean, it's not like folks would report problems like this to try and get something for free. This is some faceless part in the engine that we shouldn't even be talking about.

 

Note that the Corolla has both intake and exhaust VVT-i controllers. The Prius only has an intake VVT-i controller and a simple sprocket at the exhaust cam. Knocking occurs in both engines.

 

they could not reproduce it in the 5 degree morning

 

it has started rough 4 more times in 1 morning.