A workable Hydrogen Fuel Cell?

It is more likely that the heat is from the chemists' sweaty hands.

Tom

 

ok. i guess i read it wrong. i didnt see the 60 mins report, i heard the NPR report on SciFri. they made it sound much less flaky than what you portray.

as far as "fusion" goes, its probably a foregone conclusion to say that fusion may have not been the best term for what was observed in 1980's

 

Shawn, this is not supposed to be a self sustaining form of energy. To ask for evidence that it is self sustaining is missing the point.
What I need to see (as I am skeptical as well), is for them to be able to reliably reproduce the experiment and get the same level of heat and/or energy with the same quantity of pallidium and energy put in.

 

As the 60 minutes report shows, they're studying the characteristics of the palladium to determine what affects when/if the reaction starts. Some sources of palladium have been more reliable than others.

Also from the wired article:

excerpt from the Los Alamos section Wired 6.11: What If Cold Fusion Is Real?

 

The more I read about this, the more convinced I am that it is classic junk science. The neutrons aren't there. If they were the researchers would be dead. There are various anecdotal and self-contradictory accounts of finding pieces of the puzzle. Reminds me very much of the multitude of self-contradcitory theories by the global warming denial industry.

In another 5 years we'll get the obligatory 25 year update on cold fusion, then the 30 years, then 40, then 50. And I'll bet nothing has changed by then either.

 

Ok that's fine - but DARPA nor the Pentagon share that view.

[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_Advanced_Research_Projects_Agency[/ame]


And you don't think this is interesting:

 

Actually they do. This highly selective quoting above is typical of the snake oil approach of cold fusion's junk science.

"Where's the beef?" Twenty years and hundreds of millions of dollars and they still haven't done the basic demonstration.

 

Oh they do, do they? Hmmmmm.....

 

Shawn, are you still of the opinion that they are looking for something that is self sustaining?
They have repeated the tests in a number of labs across the world.
Right now it is an anomalous generation of excess heat. They claim it has potential, but there are NO claims that this is fusion.
There is potential for battery applications and yes, scientists have dreams, but no one is saying it is a finished product.
Yes, we all want to see more research and better more reliable results. And I am not holding my breath, but I find it very interesting.

 

Perpetual motion, cold fusion, water-for-gas, religion... All you have to do is come up with a sexy sounding crackpot notion, and the world will beat a path to your door. It's supply and demand, and there is a seemingly limitless demand for bullshit in the world.

 

I think I've already covered the DARPA and SPAWAR rationale behind funding LENR in the other thread. Science projects like HAARP (High frequency Active Auroral Research Program) actively look at cutting edge science, like LENR, primarily for use as a defensive or offensive weapon

It appears the reason LENR is receiving such public attention now (Has been receiving military support +15 years) is due to it being used as either a primary or intermediary power source for weapons. Directed energy weapons require a *lot* of energy, and are mostly impractical with current technology

Eg the specially modified 747 that was to carry a laser, has been canceled. This program was completely impractical with current technology

 

Darn, I really wanted to fly that: "Boeing heavy five-kilo-alpha, be advised of a fuel truck incursion on the active...<sssssssZAP>...ah...scratch that, the runway is clear."

Tom

 

Even better would be a trivial error with the complicated aiming system. So instead of hitting the target drone, an office building several counties away suddenly vaporizes. The Boeing crew would probably say

"Um .... whoops!"

 

So what do you need to work around that laser? SPF 20,000?

Tom

 

It's a Chemical Oxygen Iodine laser on the Boeing YAL-1 aircraft. Most of the literature is understandably scarce, but it's in the megawatt range.

 

Better up that sunblock to SPF 200,000.

Tom

 

Zap!

 

Of course. If it can't even keep itself going while it consumes some portion of the deuterium then it obviously is nothing like they claim. And they are claiming it is fusion, there is the rub.

We've got junk science claims of 25, 50, and 100 times as much energy production as input. Yet for all that they can't rig up a demonstrator that powers itself after two decades? This really pegs out the BS meter.

Integrated over the life of a run the heat production in no way matches their claims from what I can gather. It looks more like some sort of battery, an unreliable, unpredictable battery that can't be switched off and on by the operator at present. Interesting, yes, worth some study, yes. Cold fusion? Highly unlikely.

The focus seems to be backward. They need to be trying to determine what is happening at the smallest scale and coming up with a mechanism that makes fundamental sense and can be tested. Do the basic science research first rather than trying to fast forward to applications. Instead they appear to be trying to saddle a unicorn. So folks like me respond, "Hey, if that's really a unicorn like you say, then I would like to take a ride." Only they haven't got a working saddle (demonstrator)...the unicorn has no horn and looks more like an old sheep (missing neutrons/gamma rays/reaction products)...and it is rarely in its pen where they claim it is (unreliable and unpredictable.)

 

hmmm. just saw on NBC news a blurb about the Boeing Laser. scheduled for testing this fall. that was Monday i think... canceled already??

oh well

 

Haven't they been talking about that laser plane for 20 years or more? I remember images of it flying about long ago, didn't look like the present one.

It was always one of the cooler programs imagination wise. Figured it wouldn't work though...pesky weather, rotating missles, and such could defeat it even if the targeting was excellent.