Oil Analysis, Redline D6 ATF 30k miles

> As you said, the Prius is not a 'Metal V-Belt CVT' that needs a special lube.

>>I assume you are talking about a shop you work at. Did you look at the thread I linked above with several Oil Analyses of the ATF from Prii Transaxles?
I had 'very unusual' fluid come out of a 118k mile Prius and started a thread on the subject.
Maybe my particular car was a fluke...?...

>>Agreed.
I call it a Box'O Gears and Bearings with a couple of motors in there. And there is a differential down near the bottom back.
In my limited experience, some desperately need a fluid change before 100k.

 

The question to ask with any analysis -- what does it say? does it matter? Your statement that your transmission would have failed had you not changed the fluid has no way to be verified. I also have no way of knowing if Toyota adds any ingredient to it's fluid to counteract any electrical needs as some say they do.

I can assure the other poster that if Toyota could simple switch oil and achieve better results ... they would The idea that using special oil will garner 10% of some magical unleashed power .. is simply crazy. Too much money is spent trying to get 1% ... if $15 would get 2% ...it would be used in a second.

Service intervals are dependent upon so many items -- the early "lifetime" boxes had inherent designs understanding additional clutch material may be present .. w/o combustion contamination transmission and especially differential oils have almost unlimited life span. The killer is water. What some view as dirty -- contaminated etc.. may not matter .. even viscosity (thicker typically w/age) does not typically matter .. except possibly with "feel" on a small mechanical device like a manual transmission. The power loss is minor. Lower viscosity can affect both performance and overall life.

One of my first jobs after school involved recycling fluids. The Navy was bringing the WWII battleships back online in the 80's --- the amount of fluids contained in a battleship is not to be believed. Interesting stuff ... we developed equipment to do it.

My company has a fleet of vehicles -- so I'm talking about our own vehicles.

Again -- we change them out around 100k or so. It's cheap and easy ... but, I don't see any benefit to using another fluid vs what's in the box.

 

>I agree. I was being dramatic. But it did have a bad metallic sheen and the analysis was really bad. They could not do a particle count on the first sample because it was so dark.
Probably at the most it would have turned into a whiny loud gearbox as it grew older.
It may have been a fluke, but it was on the road to an earlier than usual death.

>> I agree again!

 

Who said it would unleash 10 % magical power? Don’t make up things that were not said to prove your pointless point.

Your just another poster who has never tried anything other than what comes in the car but will talk a lot of crap about something you know nothing about. This is a Car forum Some people like to try different products on there car. News flash There’s aLot of very good products out there. It’s not your car so why do you care?

 

One reason I care: a lot owners, who've not thoroughly read their (800 page) Owner's Manuals, haven't seen the warning against using alternate transaxle fluids, are going to read this thread, think yeah alternative, better fluid, that's for me. I really think there should be editorial warning on the first page, that this thread goes against very emphatic advice from Toyota, namely: that Toyota AFT WS is the only fluid you should be using in the transaxle, that any other fluid could damage it.

Sure, maybe hogwash, but that's Toyota's stance.

And for that reason, I think this thread needs to at least acknowledge that, up front. Or just be closed?

I appreciate the OP can't edit it now, but maybe the moderators can weigh in? I'll report this post, leave it up to them.

 

This claim came from some BMW Geek forum post that was mentioned up thread.
A supposed before and after dyno run.... Even the OP called it bunk.

Obviously you can't be losing 10% rear wheel power to the lubes. Your transmission and diff would be running really hot on the old lubes. (Someone fiddled with the dyno cal between runs.) (A Redline mole? You decide....)

 

Should this editorial warning also state that Toyota emphatically does not mention any preventive maintenance schedule AT ALL for this very simple transaxle?

"Change this fluid at your own risk. It is not advised per The Official Toyota Owner's Manual."

What a silly position to take with zero evidence..... We need a fresh horse carcass....

 

Now you want the thread killed because you disagree with it. Thats just not right.

 

Yeah fair enough.

 

It was post #19 .. by USLE. And ..... I actually do know something .. Thank you.

 

What people are not getting. What's good enough? There is no point in making an oil or fluid stand up to a blow torch -- if it's never going to have those conditions. Cars are also built to fluids ... in other words. We need to design this system based on this fluid -- that we know we will be using. The marketing around fluids is not unlike brake pads .. there is money to be made getting people to switch to a "premium" product that may or may not be "premium" or the premium may not be needed.

The simple fact: Everything is really good today -- coupled with better designs and superior manufacturing. Early plastics do not like some later fluids .. there can be any number of tiny reason for recommending a previous fluid.

One must remember that early auto fluid used whale oil .... yes ... blubber. It's the best natural friction modifier ... now you can see the problem with this correct? By the late 60's the precursor to the EU and by the early 70's the USA was getting a little upset going after Moby just so our Caddy's trans shifted smooth. That .. NASA and the DOD .. started most the development. M1 was the first product commercially sold ..... in the mid 70's. I was around in the 80's when early hydraulic fluids started to use the same technology.

It's all based off Dexron ... in fact if you google ..you should be able to find most of the changes as DEX II and III moved along. Again -- it's base specification. It's the friction modifiers in Mercon .. or lack of in the Japanese design that make the differences.

I think Mendel is concerned because you don't want people doing things based on posts -- if you want to try something yourself .. fine.

 

Encore

Some years back I was reading in an auto enthusiasts magazine about a person that had a BMW M3, he dynoed the car and then replaced the engine transmission and rear end oil and lubricants with red line, he then dynoed the car again and had a 10% increase in rear wheel horse power, The article was extensive, dyno readouts, dyno machine, it wasn't smoke and mirrors.

I had just bought a Kubota with 43HP, of course I changed the motor and transmission oils out for red line, never dynoed it but....when the hydrostatic transmission overheats because I push to hard or lift to heavy, it smells almost wonderful.
On the other hand my 15 ram ecodiesel runs uric acid and when I start it in cold weather the exhaust smell putrid.
The moral of the story remains the same, Red Line makes a superior product which ever of it's products you choose. And using Red Line for the transaxle in a prius is a wise move.
Or using Red Line for the ice would also be beneficial.

 

You do understand that more power can be achieved at the expense of longevity -- Friction /longevity ... pick.

There is no moral of the story ... It's marketing.

I take my hat off to them ... it's been successful.

 

Redline engine oil has higher content of ZDDP added than most engine oil, below can happen to your vehicle if using redline:

"An oil that contains a higher dose of ZDDP won’t harm a converter initially. But over tens of thousands of miles of driving, the extra zinc and phosphorus may slowly poison the catalyst and eventually cause the converter to fail. The more oil the engine uses, the faster the contamination occurs in the converter. Once converter efficiency drops below a certain threshold, it will trip the OBD II catalyst efficiency monitor, set a fault code (P0420) and turn on the Check Engine light. The engine will still run fine and performance will likely be unaffected (unless there is an exhaust restriction), but the vehicle won’t pass an emissions test until the converter problem has been fixed." -Motor Oil Issues - Engine Builder Magazine

 

Been running a Redline motor oil for 60000 miles and 6 years with no issue.i wouldn’t use this expensive oil if my cAr was burning oil. I woukd use cheap oil till I replaced the motor.

 

What does that prove? What issues would you expect using Toyota oil -- or another?

I own a fleet of cars (personal and business). Have bought hundreds of cars since 1990 -- millions of miles. In all that time -- one engine problem. That was a Ford V8 -- plastic intake leaked -- known defect. The reality: Oil choice almost does not matter -- it's all that good. The fleet magazines and journals talk about this and there are people with much larger fleets than I with the same results -- use a quality filter and major brand of oil in the proper weight specified by the manufacturer. The fleet cars have all gone past 200k since the first lexus vehicles. Cars up until the very late 90's did not last as long -- the engines did but everything else was failing.

Frankly -- When I started switching to Lexus vehicles in the early 00's I was shocked how clean the oil was at the 7500k mark .. it was a shame to toss it out. Same with the Prius and Lexus CT's -- amazingly clean at 10k. I use M1...Pennzoil often as we get killer deals .. both in the big bottles.

The Euro cars get M1 because of the FSS tracer.

 

OK, New info! I'll bite:

1> Is there a published list of ZDDP content in popular engine oils, like Mobil 1, M1 Extended Performance, and, let's say Toyota's house brand of syn motor oil?

2> What is 'FSS tracer'? Is it a good thing? Brand specific?

3> Why do some Gen 3 Prii experience EGR/Intake track clogging and others seem fine at high miles?
Has there ever been a Gen3 catalytic converter go bad?