With "Experts" like this

The bitch left her email address and her phone number. Not even sure if it is a woman. Anyway... feel free to write or fax her. She/He may respond. I don't even want to waste my time. The article was so incorrect it's not funny.

 

ok you guys...

we can either let it go or gain another Prius convert...

i think we all should write her a letter... i will post a copy of mine in my blog

**edit**

ok wrote mine and sent it...

anyone else yet?

 

So much misunderstanding... It's extremely frustrating.

Why is there so much resistance? Bunch of luddites.

 

Yes, I agree we need to respond. But don't expect a convert, in fact don't even expect a reply. She most likely drives an SUV, or maybe a Kia Rio. Her opinion piece reads like she made up her mind and then gathered a few "facts" to support it throwing out everything that didn't fit. I think a lot of todays so called "journalists" engage that technique because it's easier and you don't need to do any real research.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if she was simply told to write an article to put hybrids down. Not that I am defending her, but I think the puppets on TV, papers, online publications etc. are told what to say/write. They are not journalists they are PUPPETS!

 

Bingo! With so many more media outlets nowadays (i.e., cable TV and the internet) the field of "journalism" has been "democratized" to include some truly stupid, lazy, grasping people, who would have been members of the secretarial pool in a bygone era.

 

Didja read the claims, at the bottom of the piece, made for HER? (Undoubtedly written by...er, HER.)

Probably has "Car Care Aware" copyrighted...

And her "Expert" advice is that she "suggests" we FOLLOW THE RECOMMENDATIONS iN THE OWNER'S MANUAL.

Gadzooks, "premier" Lauren. Eureka! Why didn't I think of that?

I'll put galaxee or Rancid up against her any day.

 

whoa. at first i thought that pesky 'you' tag was back.. but no!

haha, jack, i'd have no problem taking down someone that dumb... in a war of words or otherwise

 

omigod! galaxee's not just smart and, ahem, CUTE (sans proof, but we're all believers, eh?), but bench-presses 300 and can argue like Roseann

 

Rawrrrr! Even though I'm still in the early learning stage about the Prius, and after reading thru that, 'editorial?', 'article?', I was still able to spot the things that were incorrect based on the information I've learned here in the last 2+ months...I'll leave it to the knowledge-filled pros to handle this chick this time.

 

300?? eek, no. however, my husband can tell you i can argue like a lawyer! :lol:

 

here is a few articles published in the local paper this morning

http://www.theolympian.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a.../510230381/1003

a quote from this one about Toyota of Olympia where i purchased my Prius...

"there is one Prius on the lot used exclusively for test drives. It goes out 4 to 8 times a day"

another article

http://www.theolympian.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a.../510230378/1003

a quote from that. this was in response to a shopper who was quoted a price for an insight, and was later told the price would be higher "because of demand"

Mike Carter at the Toyota dealer said they sell the Prius at the list price and don't dicker.

iow no markup. that is their policy. they have averaged 20-60 on the waiting list ever since the 2004 came out. they also cut their fleet commitment to the state by 70% in order to have more Priuses available to the consumer

you might want to browse the rest of the paper. there are some good articles on the effect of getting rid of the gas tax that was recently passed in WA state and people are currently working to rescind it because of high prices.

 

very nice letter...

heres mine...

Dear Lauren:

i read your article entitled Hybrid Cars – Are they worth it? I currently own a 2004 Toyota Prius and I think its fair that I give you some of my experiences that I have had. Also, some of the statements you made don't reflect the full reality of the situation.

What to think about before buying?
Yes, hybrids are more expensive and their popularity has provided many opportunities for dealers to add a premium to the sticker. But the new tax laws taking effect Jan 1, 2006 should help alliviate that problem. also, if money is all that is a concern, I have yet to see a Hummer for $22,000. Maybe a study on the rising health costs and possible reasons for that including higher polution levels and the incident of respiratory dieases.

How fuel-efficient are these cars?
You are also right about half of this statement. Yes, the Prius does use battery power at street level speeds. But a fully charged Prius will only go a few miles under the best of circumstances. If the EPA city tests are longer than this (and they are) then your statement is completely wrong. My daily commute is 8.8 miles one way in the city. It has 8 lights, 2 stop signs. speed is either 35 or 40 mph. My gas engine will cycle on about a dozen times. So those high mileage figures DO take into account the amount of gas burned to get those numbers.

Also, the mileage from any car is dependent of driving styles, conditions, traffic, topography, and temperature. (albeit, probably more so in the Prius than anywhere else. imho, the Prius is best in warmer climates. That is the only real knock on this car) It is very possible to get the 60 mpg in city driving as I have done it many many times. (See my signature)

Will they stand the test of time?
Obviously, that remains to be seen. But we already have some compeling evidence on the Prius Classic (2001-2003) A Vancouver, BC taxi company had several Prius Classics that were driven over 200,000 miles with no more than basic maintenance and few repairs common in cars with that kind of mileage (brakes, etc). What didn't need replacing was the battery, EV system, etc. iow, the hybrid component of the Prius passed with flying colors. The 2004 or Gen 3 made improvements on the battery charging and monitoring systems so reliability should only get better.

What about the insurance costs of a hybrid?
I have spent a lot of time thinking about this statement. I still don't understand it nor can I even guess as to why you said this. My state (WA) requires insurance and also welcomes any solution that saves gas and reduces greenhouse gases. The only change in my insurance rates was that it went down because of the anti-lock brakes. And if your statement was even vaguely correct, a Hummer would be twice as difficult to insure because its twice as expensive.

Does it cost more to maintain a hybrid?
Can't argue this one too much as most of what you said is spot on but also applies to most cars. Since the hybrid components have a rather long warranty (8 years and 100,000 miles. longer in select other states like CA) not a lot to worry about on the repair costs, at least initially.

Finally,

There are many cars built today that provide fuel economy over 30 mpg. Even Ford produces a Focus that is zero emissions.

Wow... another statement that I don't understand. What fuel does it use? There is not a gasoline engine in the world that has zero emissions.

If you have any questions or would like to learn more about the best hybrid on the road today, i recommend www.PriusChat.com. It is full of user experiences both good and bad. This site goes a long way towards dispelling myths and setting correct expectations for current and future owners.

Thanks for your time,

 

[My contribution to the mailbag.]

Dear Ms. Fix,

I apologize in advance for this email. I'm a professional journalist myself, and I doubt you enjoy critical letters any more than I do. But as the fanatical owner of a 2005 Toyota Prius, I'm compelled to point out some factual errors in your expertclick.com article about hybrids. There has indeed been a lot of uncritical hybrid hype, and it should be corrected. But there has also been a lot of anti-hybrid misinformation, and while your article debunks some of this - thank you! - it also repeats several misconceptions.

1. "In fact, in normal use, the margin between truly comparable hybrid and non-hybrid cars could be less than 10%-- hardly enough to justify the extra purchase price."

It is absolutely inconceivable that a Prius-sized gasoline-engine-only car, driven in a comparable manner, in comparable conditions, could get within 10 percent of the Prius' mileage. In slow, stop-and-go driving, the electric motor's 295 lb-ft of torque plus regenerative braking give the Prius a huge mpg improvement over conventional cars. At highway speeds, where the electric motor is rarely used, the Prius' Miller-cycle gasoline engine provides a vast improvement over traditional Otto-cycle gasoline engines. (The Prius' engine is 40 percent efficient, compared with about 26 percent for a well-tuned Otto cycle engine.) At 55-60 mph, we regularly average 57 to 62 mpg. The attached photo was taken after several days of my wife and I squiring her parents around Colorado highways, with the A/C on most of the time (modestly - it was not that hot that week). Of course, I could be a liar and a master of photoshop, but assuming I'm telling the truth, you'll surely agree that even the Kia Rio couldn't come close under comparable conditions. (I know what you're thinking - only a total geek would take pictures of his car's multi-function display. Guilty as charged!

It would be great if the EPA revised its testing, because that would put to rest the myth that the current test disproportionately favors hybrids. With almost 7,000 miles on the Prius, I'm getting lifetime 52.8 mpg - almost 96 percent of the EPA's combined highway/city mileage. Very few conventional car owners get closer to their EPA ratings then this.

There are also real-life situations in which the Prius might not break 40 mpg. But these are the same conditions in which conventional cars don't come anywhere near their EPA estimates - for instance, a short, stop-and-start commute in an extremely hot or cold environment. You'll still get dramatically better mileage in a Prius.

2. "Creating these power cells requires a couple of hundred pounds of heavy metals-- not to mention the copper used in the large electric drive motors and the heavy wires they require. Mining and smelting lead, copper and other heavy metals is an energy intensive process that generates both air pollution and deforestation."

Since you debunk the "polluting batteries" myth later on in your story, I'm not quite certain what you're getting at here. But for the record, (1) the Prius' battery weighs under 100 pounds, and (2) Toyota designed the Prius to be green from cradle to grave (I'll send you the link to their life-cycle analysis if you're interested), so the environmental impacts associated with manufacture and disposal are somewhat less for the Prius than for a traditional 2800-pound car.

3. "Replacing a battery 5-7 years down the road could cost as much as $5000 (on the Prius - right now) plus the disposal of the battery which is considered hazardous waste."

The Prius' battery is warranted for 8 years/100,000 miles (10 years/150,000 miles in California), so of course they're designed to last much longer. If they eventually fail, Toyota has a recycling program. And the replacement list price is $3,995, plus a couple of hours for installation.

4. "Check with your insurer, I have heard of a few that don’t even insure hybrids."

Which companies? Without naming names, this is dangerous hearsay. We got an excellent insurance rate in Colorado, because of the car's optional non-hybrid safety features, such as stability control and side airbags.

Thanks very much for your time and attention - and again, my apologies.

Yours, blah blah blah

 

Here's my email which is minorly modified from a /. post I made a while ago:

some parts of your "Hybrid Cars – Are they worth it?" article seems to be very poorly researched without supporting data. I'm submitting some data for your comparison.

A Civic is seriously overpriced compared to a Geo Metro or a go-cart. Why not compare apples-to-apples, such as a Prius to an Accord or Camry since you want to compare to a car (midsize) of similar interior space & comforts, right?

Lessee, the equivalent Accord would be the 4-door sedan w/ nav http://www.edmunds.com/new/2005/honda/acco...denav..7.Honda* with your voice activated NAV, ABS, 5 person seating, power everything, alarm, immobilizer, EBD, cruise, button covered steering wheel, air filtration, alloy wheels, 6 CD stereo system, similar engine specs (yes, the hybrid 1.5L is about equivalent to the 160HP gas).. blah blah blah with specs http://www.edmunds.com/new/2005/honda/acco...denav..8.Honda* of nyah compared to the Prius with specs of nyah http://www.edmunds.com/new/2005/toyota/pri...enav..8.Toyota* and ... OMFG the Prius is slightly roomier... Continuing on, the prices come out to the same $26K MSRP +/- a few hundred. OMFG! Is this what a premium, or overpriced math, means?

Now, let's compare to the similiar Camry http://www.edmunds.com/new/2006/toyota/cam...enav..8.Toyota* and you find the Camry only very slightly roomier and a few K cheaper until you count the missing Nav and maybe some other options.

You previously named a 15K Civic, a watermelon to pineapple comparison. Well, no way it's the 4 door EX with Nav because that's $20K+ http://www.edmunds.com/new/2006/honda/civi...s.html?action=1. How about the "Bottom of the Line" DX sedan http://www.edmunds.com/new/2006/honda/civi...arch.0.3.Honda*. The seating room is pretty close to the Prius, although it's missing 4" of rear legroom and 4 cu-ft of cargo space. Subtract NAV, premium audio, HID head lights, etc http://www.edmunds.com/new/2006/honda/civi...denav..7.Honda* and I can see the $10K difference might be a bit "much". But then the Civic also doesn't have the alacantara-like http://www.google.com/search?hs=Imz&hl=en&...oth&btnG=Search microfiber cloth upholstry used on many premium Bimmers, Subarus which are considered by many NOT to be premium-less vehicles. That's fine too, because you can get things in leather come 2006.

So now that we have this imaginary premium that somehow exists for Hybrids, but does not for SUVs, cars with bigger engines, and etc etc because V6+ premium/German goodness and all that shininess of a Hummer somehow comes for free and you've already broken even without breaking the bank unlike the evil Hybrid?

Maybe there's no SUV premium because of the governmental subsidies by the way of large tax breaks (paid by YOU and ME) because of SUVs' heavyweight status. On a tangent, did you know many SUVs are illegally driving on city/residental streets? http://slate.msn.com/id/2104755/

For you real geeks, the Prius electronics hard-maintains charge levels between 40% to 80%. Pretty difficult to kill a battery doing that.

Don't forget to add the reduced maintenance costs of hybrids because:
o some are Japanese cars
o they use their engines & brake pads a lot less
o the Prius does not have a timing belt so no replacement necessary
o lifetime no emissions tests in California
o 8 year/150K warranty on the hybrid battery (try to beat that mileage with your regular car battery) for the Prius
o the Prius itself has been around since ~1997 with a few cabs already over 150K miles with no battery problems compared to how many million recalls for other cars?
o just oil change/tire rotation for the first 60->100K miles

BTW, FIRST service/oil change is at 5K and every 5K miles, but all it involves for the first 100K miles is tire rotation and oil change. Filter checks in between, but that doesn't cost a "premium".

Then there's the "imaginary" savings of having clean air so kids don't have asthma and growing up leaning on the health system a bit which is paid by OMFG my taxes. Of course it's arguable that the money would've went to Iraq anyways, but I digress.

I own a Prius because my drivable 9-year old 37MPG Civic HX CVT needs repairs that costs the down payment for a Prius. Did I pay for a markup?

So did I miss anything here? Oh YA.. NOW let's add up the cost savings for the better gas efficiency per pound of a Hybrid... or not bother.

So sure believe everything CNN and the anti-hybrid hype writes. BTW, how much is it going to cost to repair/replace that normal manual/automatic transmission 5-7 years down the line? Maybe $5-7K and no longer being made, while batteries incrementally improve over the same time span? People want to know!

Please support your article "facts" with data supporting your Award-Winning Expert status that does not belie your 20 years of experience.

QED

Sincerely,

 

Ironic how I rented a Kia Rio to drive to Ventura and put my deposit on a Prius. That Rio is the biggest (littlest) pile of junk next to a Yu-Go (spelling?). I think it's only a tad bit smaller than my Civic but I almost rolled it going around a corner that would make my Civic laugh. It handles like snot. So, the small price for that car is "you get LESS than what you pay for" at $12,000. I would rather buy an H2 just to drive it off a cliff before even thinking of even EVER driving a Rio much less buying one. If I have to rent again I will wait however long is necessary for any other car.

 

But how do you really feel?

:lol: