Will the EU ever Rival the US as a Worlds Superpower

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Oct 24 2007, 07:54 AM) [snapback]529640[/snapback]</div>

Short answer is no. Unless the countries completely give up their soveriegnty, it is mostly just a loose trading group anyways. The day that all France and Great Britain decide to have one permanent vote on the UN security council instead of two, then I will consider the EU more than a trading bloc with a currency.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Oct 24 2007, 09:42 AM) [snapback]529654[/snapback]</div>

Wouldn't that be an (economic) superpower?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Oct 24 2007, 08:59 AM) [snapback]529661[/snapback]</div>

I think in some ways the EU is an economic superpower, at least when considered as a market. As a producer I am not so sure. The problem with the EU is if the population continues to dwindle it's power will continue to dwindle.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Oct 24 2007, 02:03 PM) [snapback]529662[/snapback]</div>

The EU has 490 million . The US has 303 million. We're dwindling as fast as we can over here but it may take a while.

 

If not EU, who will be the next superpower?

Throughout history we've seen superpowers come and go. From Greece and Rome to Great Britain and the USSR, various nations have had their "moment in the sun".

But what makes a superpower?
Financial power?
Culture and education?
Technology and inovation?
Military might?
Freedom and human rights?

The USA still has the greatest military strength, but in other aspects we have been, or are being surpassed.

Will we regain our world stature, or, like Rome and Britain before us, is our time is coming to an end? And if so, who will be next?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Oct 24 2007, 12:54 PM) [snapback]529640[/snapback]</div>

Tell that to the families of the 171 UK service people that have dwindled in Iraq.

Can anyone count the number of EU countries contributing more personnel than the US to the UN? I count 10 but I may have missed some.

Ranking of Military and Police
Contributions to UN Operations
Month of Report : 30-Sep-07
Country Number of Members
1 ) Pakistan . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10,629
2 ) Bangladesh . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9,728
3 ) India . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9,352
4 ) Nepal . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3,674
5 ) Jordan . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3,564
6 ) Ghana . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2,950
7 ) Uruguay . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2,599
8 ) Nigeria . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2,486
9 ) Italy . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2,432
10 ) France . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1,950
11 ) Senegal . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1,917
12 ) Ethiopia . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1,825
13 ) China . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1,811
14 ) Morocco . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1,537
15 ) Benin . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1,320
16 ) Brazil . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1,280
17 ) South Africa . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1,210
18 ) Spain . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1,194
19 ) Germany . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1,126
20 ) Sri Lanka . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1,104
21 ) Kenya . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1,092
22 ) Indonesia . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1,075
23 ) Egypt . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 984
24 ) Poland . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 981
25 ) Turkey . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 944
26 ) Argentina . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 897
27 ) Malaysia . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 671
28 ) Philippines . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 667
29 ) Namibia . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 651
30 ) Niger . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 583
31 ) Ukraine . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 550
32 ) Chile . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 520
33 ) Tunisia . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 501
34 ) Zambia . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 490
35 ) Bolivia . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 457
36 ) Portugal . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 437
37 ) Austria . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 413
Page 1 of 3
Country Number of Members
38 ) Republic of Korea . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 400
39 ) United Kingdom . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 365
40 ) Togo . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 340
41 ) Rwanda . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 339
42 ) Belgium . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 338
43 ) United States of America . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 307
44 ) Slovakia . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 297
45 ) Russia . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 291
46 ) Fiji . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 270
47 ) Romania . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 269
48 ) Mongolia . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 262
49 ) Guatemala . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 253
50 ) Greece . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 252
51 ) Finland . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 248
52 ) Peru . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 246
53 ) Ireland . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 213
54 ) Qatar . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 203
55 ) Netherlands . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 201
56 ) Malawi . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 161
57 ) Cambodia . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 146
58 ) Cameroon . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 141
59 ) Zimbabwe . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 139
60 ) Canada . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 131
61 ) Hungary . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 118
62 ) Mali . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 117
63 ) Sweden . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 113
64 ) Tanzania . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 111
65 ) Australia . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 108
66 ) Gambia . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 98
67 ) Ecuador . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 93
68 ) Burkina Faso . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 80
69 ) Paraguay . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 78
70 ) Yemen . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 77
71 ) Denmark . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 76
72 ) Norway . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 74
73 ) Uganda . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 69
74 ) Guinea . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 61
75 ) Thailand . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 59
76 ) Bulgaria . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 57
77 ) Croatia . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 55
78 ) El Salvador . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 48
79 ) New Zealand . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 40
Page 2 of 3
Country Number of Members
80 ) Samoa . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 39
81 ) Czech Republic . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 39
82 ) Japan . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 38
83 ) Switzerland . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 34
84 ) Kyrgyzstan . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 31
85 ) Singapore . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 28
86 ) Bosnia and Herzegovina . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 27
87 ) Cote d Ivoire . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 27
88 ) Djibouti . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 27
89 ) Serbia . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 22
90 ) Madagascar . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 21
91 ) Burundi . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 18
92 ) Slovenia . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 17
93 ) Jamaica . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 16
94 ) Chad . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 13
95 ) Honduras . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12
96 ) Vanuatu . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10
97 ) Lithuania . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9
98 ) Gabon . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8
99 ) Moldova . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8
100 ) Algeria . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8
101 ) Botswana . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5
102 ) Central African Republic . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5
103 ) Dominican Republic . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4
104 ) Iran . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3
105 ) Grenada . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3
106 ) Mozambique . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3
107 ) Albania . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3
108 ) Sierra Leone . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3
109 ) Estonia . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2
110 ) Timor-Leste . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2
111 ) DR Congo . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2
112 ) Luxembourg . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2
113 ) Cyprus . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2
114 ) Montenegro . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2
115 ) Colombia . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2
116 ) FYR of Macedonia . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2
117 ) Mauritius . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1
118 ) Kazakhstan . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1
119 ) Palau . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1
Grand Total 83,445
Page 3 of 3

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Oct 24 2007, 08:26 AM) [snapback]529699[/snapback]</div>

Mmm. A Muslim-controlled Europe. Now that's an interesting thought.

Assalamu Alikum...

 

As a group, the EU won't have such a "stick" until they centralize their military control, which won't happen anytime soon. It's like the US back in the day - we used to be a loose collection of states, each maintaining its own militia, printing its own currency, and jockeying for position in the newly formed "national" government.

Now look at us today - Everything is nationalized, and the states themselves have very little power. Instead, the power is all in the political parties. Will the EU get to this point? Maybe someday. But the treaty they have on the table is only one step of a rather long journey.

 

Personally, I think it's inevitable. They can deal with high-priced oil much better than we can, and we're continuing to spread out our resources trying to police the world whether it needs it or not. When oil prices double from today, our power will be limited and the EU is the best candidate to fill that space. China will have power just on sheer numbers, but I don't think they'll have the organization or direction for that. Russia will linger on like it is.

Is the EU population really declining? I thought immigration was making up for a declining birth rate.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Oct 24 2007, 12:57 PM) [snapback]529780[/snapback]</div>

It's entirely relevant. Or maybe use the analogy of the formation of Germany from a collection of city-states and regions into a world power in less than a century. That was much more than a military change, but obviously we remember the military aspects.

 

If the world adopts the more stable Euro as its currency of trade, instead of the rapidly declining US dollar, that alone will be a huge shift in power.

As for future superpowers and what the defining characteristics might be, how about:

- a surplus of increasingly scarce and valuable commodities like energy and water.

- an abundance of arable land

- the ability to govern through respect and cooperation instead of fear and mutually-assured destruction

- a skilled, educated, and innovative workforce

Well, food for thought, anyway.

 

The EU is already a larger economy (33% vs 27%) and they have a positive trade balance. And they do that working less and distributing their wealth far better than we do (and I'm not talking about welfare). They consume far less energy per capita (about half). We could learn a lot from them if we'd just get over ourselves.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Oct 24 2007, 12:57 PM) [snapback]529780[/snapback]</div>

How so?

You have to realize, Berman, that the art of debate isn't simply about telling other people that they're wrong or their point is irrelevant - you also have to show why that is so.

So please tell me, why is history in this case irrelevant? Every world superpower has come about through the combination of neighboring states. America was formed through the combination of 13 separate colonies - If you read your history, you'd know that initially we were little more than a loose conglomeration of trading partnerships. But we used that as a starting point to get to where we are today. Look at Russia - Back when they were the only other superpower, they were the USSR - a conglomeration of previously separate states.

The steps the EU is taking will (maybe slowly) pull them together. They've already essentially broken down their borders. They've adopted a single currency. They're starting to act in unison when it comes to trade. It's only a matter of time before they adopt a common government, even if it is a weak one. That government will slowly amass power from the states, much like we did when we were founded.

Rather than dismissing my argument out of hand, please provide proof that it's irrelevant. Just because you don't like it, and because it means that maybe the US isn't so much better than everyone else as you seem to think doesn't mean it's irrelevant.