Will the 2012 be the same but with a plug-in option?

What makes you think Toyota has adopted the GM model of quick, superficial model "changes?" Why not 2016 instead?

2012 seems mighty shaky as the time for a new version, specially a version made to plug in for a long, starting battery cruise. That would be a major revision and will probably incorporate a major appearance change.

It might even happen in another model first, say the Lexus?

 

One could hope (was hoping) that they would be planning for the PHEV future with the 2010. A future where they could upgrade the battery pack from the 'prior year' model to gain EV distance. I was hoping Toyota would incrementally add 'improvements' without losing cargo space (as the Hymotion system does) as battery technology made more capacity in a smaller/lighter form possible.

I don't expect a jump from MAYBE 1 mile EV under very strict restrictions to 40 miles of EV regardless of conditions (assuming the battery is charged). I would be happy if they created a plug-in where I could charge the battery overnight and get a few miles of 'no conditions' EV and have that EV distance increase each model year.

If, instead, they are planning their PHEV to be a whole new design, like the Volt, I'm not holding my breath that I can replace my '04 in another 4 or 5 years for a PHEV Prius.

 

i am struggling to see what is this "whole new design". Companies do not reengineer their vehicles every 6 months.

Prius based phev will be based on Prius, with new technology needed to make it "phev".

 

beta starts this year with 500 vehicles available for fleet customers...

 

The 2010 Prius is their new design. Taking a look at the new features, and consider how many of them are focused on minimizing the need to run the engine. They only give a relatively small gain now, but toss in a bigger battery and their importance grows dramatically.

-All the pumps & AC are electric
-No 'instant-on' to warm the cat. converter
-'Eco Mode' to avoid heavy acceleration
-Smaller front grill, exhaust heat recovery to keep the engine warm with lower use
-Engine coolant keeps the cat. converter warm

A plug-in Prius faces substantially higher emissions if it can't keep the engine warm. The exhaust heat recovery system is a pretty major new feature that is perfectly targeted to tackle that problem, and just because Toyota says it's to help warm up in cold weather doesn't mean that is actually it's primary intention.

 

I think that Prius will be for a very long time Toyota's "flagship" vehicle for the introduction of new technology for efficiency.

It seems to me that in the video posted on the PriusChat home page, Toyota said that the 2010's technology would be a stepping stone towards plug-in. They did not, however, give any suggestion of a time line, probably due to uncertainty on advances in battery technology.

Car companies seldom if ever offer to retro-fit older models with new technology. They'd much rather sell new cars than retro-fit old ones.

 

The major problem with the ICE is control and recovery of heat. When the ICE is not required for accessories the requirement for burning fuel will be reduced. Anything that conserves and reuses "waste" heat will increase fuel efficiency when it is running.

Given the PZEV status and comparatively low cost of the Prius, I expect more incremental change. The development of reliably controllable LI batteries has yet to occur. The Prius will not be used to test for risks to safety from random battery fires.

Until LI batteries are as reliable and long lived as the rest of a Prius, the added weight of NiMH cells will preclude a plug-in feature. Do not think of using lead; even LiMH batteries, if they could be controlled, are too heavy for a useful plug-in Prius.

 

I presume "LiMH" was a typo and you intended "NiMH." Note that the EV-1 used lead batteries at first, and NiMH later. While a PHEV-100 might be problematic with NiMH due to the combined weight of the ICE and the batteries, I think the only thing preventing a PHEV-20 with NiMH batteries is the Cobasys patent.

 

LiMH is a generalized acronym for Lithium Metal Hydride. In that I was tired and misspoke, I should have said Li-Poly rather than LI(Lithium Ion). Li-Poly is a dry battery yet to be completely developed for automotive application. It's lightness comes from using organic polymers for electrolyte. LiMH batteries involve more or less heavy materials, ranging from Carbon to Lead, along with Lithium, many using liquid electrolytes, as does the common Lithium Ion system which pairs Lithium with Carbon.

Seeing that Prius uses NiMH batteries in it's non-plugin system I can see no major patent problems with Chevron or ECD Ovonics. All patent problems come down to money. That appears to be no problem for Toyota.

The problem with NiMH is weight, just as it is with lead, which otherwise would be the ideal battery system.

 

Thank you for the clarification on "LiMH," something I had not hear of, though I have heard of lithium polymer.

Cobasys agreed (for a fee) to allow NiMH batteries of the size Toyota uses in the Prius. Using more NiMH battery capacity in a car would violate the patent. Whether they would allow bigger NiMH batteries to be used for an additional fee is speculative. As an oil company subsidiary, it's in their interest to just say no, and our perverted legal system allows them to do just that.

 

Only too heavy if you leave in all the gas engine/tank/exhaust stuff. Rip all that out, and you've got the room and weight allowance for a proper number of batteries.

 

I disagree. I believe that lithium batteries (of whatever type) are not too heavy to make a plug-in Prius. The difficulty at present is the price. I agree with Darell that an EV is preferable. But I do not believe that the weight of lithium batteries precludes a PHEV.

On the other hand, I've stated elsewhere that for a PHEV I prefer the series design, e.g. the vaporware Volt concept. (I.e., the concept is good, if they had any intention of actually building it, and if it were built by a company willing to give priority to quality, as Toyota does, rather than maximizing executive pay, as GM does.)

 

current prius hybrid batteries are heavier than all of the engine components . Now add batteries needed for 40 mile range........

 

My Xebra gets 40 miles on about 200 pounds of lithium (LiFePO4) batteries. The Prius weighs more, but has more efficient electrical components. 300 pounds would be plenty to give a PHEV Prius a 40-mile EV range. That weight is not trivial, but it is certainly possible.

Note also that lithium batteries have a wider range of operation than NiMH, so a greater part of the battery's total capacity is usable.