Why the slow evolution of "conventional" gas-electric hybrid technology

We get an affordable +75 MPG dedicated hybrid next year, despite so much of the auto industry along with the previous administration having fought to slow/impair/undermine that advancement.
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Toyota will introduce 3 new Priuses in 2012, the PHV, the v and the c. Focusing on the v is not focusing where your interests are. Both the PHV and the c should get better mileage than the existing Gen 3, which gets better mileage than your 2004.

I assume Toyota gets feedback from the owners (and potential owners) about what they want in a new car and make trade offs based on profitability. If so, they are building bigger Priuses because they see more demand for bigger.

If anything, hybrids are a victim of success, if you calculate how much you would save getting 70 MPG vs 50 MPG, you realize how little one can raise the price for a 70 MPG car. Many here question the return on investment for the PHV.

Real gains can be made by hybriding larger vehicles, but they will vilify you if you admit it. We are 'supposed' to believe everyone will buy a small car.

 

It's not the only factor but patents will be blocking logical development and implimentation of the state of the art.

 

Low hanging friuts were taken by Gen2 Prius. The next big leap for the cordless will be in the gas engine with long stroke and turbo.

The plugin will evolve as Lithium matures and the cost is coming down. Electricity will gradually displace gas when it makes sense to do so.

 

I understand the poster's frustration. Based on what I have learned here from PriusChat members and research, there is a lot of blame to go around. I think the Ovonics/GM/Texaco/Chevron large format NiMh patent suit put a stop at least temporarily to Prius Plug-in and second Gen RAV4 EV which were going to be large NiMh batteries. Now with Lithium battery.

 

I agree with all the above posters. Progress is incredibly slow. Unless there is a 2ndWW and a Manhatten project. And then there are the naysayer who still declare the World is flat. The best we can do is buy and support the hybrids, or anything significantly better and ignore the pessimist!

 

How much have spoons changed since they were introduced how long ago? I think the design is doing really well.

 

$$$$$$$$$$$$ Thats the answer.

 

While I have little to add, I think this is a great and relevant topic. What has happened with the evolution of the Prius is along the same lines of the industry in general. The car got bigger, heavier, faster, and a tiny be more efficient. If the size, weight and output of the car were held as a constant, the efficiency improvements would look a lot better, I think!

Toyota made a big gamble (at the time) with their hybrid. It has paid off handsomely for them - if for no other reason that the invaluable halo effect. And along with all this comes the idea that they want to amortize this R&D expense for as long as possible... and that means not changing the core technology for as long as possible.

 

OK... that's pretty funny. But on a more serious note - spoons are pretty much the endgame for a soup-consuming tool. If it can be made better, it really won't be *much* better. Hybrids on the other hand are in their infancy. Driving a hybrid is like using a stick to drink your soup. It is time to start carving it into a more effective configuration. It is no mystery - we already know that hybrids can be FAR more efficient than they are. One easy way is to take the ICE out of them.

 

You summed it up quite well. Also, some at GM, other car companies and the media basically campaigned with all sort of negative information about the Prius, its battery etc..., and it is more polluting than a Hummer, etc... while the lead acid battery is the most recycled product at 97%.

So, despite all odds, the Prius survived and it will be years before other companies develop a good system of their own. Some of the other hybrids out there right now are basically cars with: Stop and Start Technology, not really hybrids.

 

A lot of people I know are still afraid of the electronics even though many of them have worked with motors and batteries in an industrial setting. I think when this group accepts the technology as reliable then sales will expand across the market.

What if we drilled a hole through the stick? But which way?

 

Evolution of technology requires brilliant new ideas. Feel free to make one. As Chuck said on another thread, the MPG of the new cars in the US has hovered around 21 since 1988!

We have gotten amazingly spoiled by being able to throw cheap energy (and thus money) at any problem. It is not our birthright.

 

If you take the ICE out of hybrids you have an EV and you know what their limitations are. Hybrids offer unlimited range using two power sources in tandem. Toyota has successfully marketed this technology by making the Prius more substancial ie Gen III. this new Prius has become more acceptable to the general public because of not only its superior gas milage but the improvements in comfort and technology. Expanding this marketing genius with the v, c, and plug in, will keep the Prius the major player in the hybrid market. Especially if the only thing GM can throw against it is the Volt.

 

This is right along the lines of what I have been thinking. The reality is, going from 50mpg to 60mpg really does not create a large savings in fuel. Whereas going from 25mpg to 42mpg does make a large difference so while 42mpg doesn't sound great, most of the people purchasing them may be coming from a 25mpg SUV/Crossover so we all win due to their decision.

With that said, when my GenII needs to be replaced I will not be buying a GenIII. I'm going to hold out for the Prius c and my hope that it will net 60mpg plus. It's not a great economic decision but if I can find a newly used one then it makes sense and I'll have a new car with better mpg.

 

But we also know that with electricity prices in many areas, the cost to run an EV does not always net a significant savings unless you are creating your own energy such that any increase in your electric bill is minor. Don't get me wrong, I think EVs are a big step in the right direction. If they ever come out with an affordable 200mile EV and put enough level 2 and level 3 chargers in useful locations I'd drop my Prius in a heartbeat. Unfortunately I drive too much. It's funny how Clipper Creek chargers is located near my work.

 

Guess I have a somewhat different way of looking at this: it's not so much that we can't do better as much as how well we're already doing.

Taken in it's entirety, few, if any innovations in automotive technology can match the quantum leap in elegance and sophistication that is the Toyota Hybrid System; Toyota was light-years ahead of their time when they first brought it to market, making it that much more difficult to make major improvements on.

 

Excellent post. People who don't actually develop anything don't realize that it takes more than a harebrained idea and pixie dust.

 

You forgot unicorn tears!