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Why driving a Prius is really not enough

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by Rae Vynn, Jul 18, 2007.

  1. Rae Vynn

    Rae Vynn Artist In Residence

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    A Very Inconvenient Truth - by Capt Paul Watson

    The meat industry is one of the most destructive ecological industries
    on the planet. The raising and slaughtering of pigs, cows, sheep,
    turkeys and chickens not only utilizes vast areas of land and vast
    quantities of water, but it is a greater contributor to greenhouse gas emissions
    than the automobile industry.

    The seafood industry is literally plundering the ocean of life and some
    fifty percent of fish caught from the oceans is fed to cows, pigs,
    sheep, chickens etc in the form of fish meal. It also takes about fifty
    fish caught from the sea to raise one farm raised salmon.

    We have turned the domestic cow into the largest marine predator on the
    planet. The hundreds of millions of cows grazing the land and farting
    methane consume more tonnage of fish than all the world's sharks,
    dolphins and seals combined. Domestic housecats consume more fish,
    especially tuna, than all the world's seals.

    So why is it that all the world's large environmental and
    conservation groups are not campaigning against the meat industry? Why did Al
    Gore's film Inconvenient Truth not mention the inconvenient truth that
    the slaughter industry creates more greenhouse gases than the automobile
    industry?

    The Greenpeace ships serve meat and fish to their crews everyday. The
    World Wildlife Fund does not say a word about the threat that meat
    eating poses for the survival of wildlife, the habitat destroyed, the wild
    competitors for land eliminated, or the predators destroyed to save
    their precious livestock. .

    When I was a Sierra Club director for three years, everyone looked
    amused when I brought up the issue of vegetarianism. At each of our Board
    meeting dinners, the Directors were served meat and only after much
    prodding and complaining did the couple of vegetarian directors manage to
    get a vegetarian option. At our meeting in Montana we were served
    Buffalo and antelope, lobsters in Boston, crabs in Charleston, steak in
    Albuquerque etc. But what else can we expect from a “conservation†group
    that endorses trophy hunting.

    As far as I know and I may be wrong, but my organization, the Sea
    Shepherd Conservation Society is the only conservation organization in the
    world that endorses and practises vegetarianism. My ships do not serve
    meat or fish ever, nor do we serve dairy products. We've had a
    strictly vegan menu for years and no one has died of scurvy or malnutrition.

    The price we pay for this is to be accused by other conservation
    organizations of being animal rights. Like it's a bad word. They say
    it with the same disdain that Americans used to utter the word
    communist in the Fifties.

    The Sea Shepherd Conservation Society is not an animal rights
    organization. We are exclusively involved in interventions against illegal
    activities that threaten and exploit marine wildlife and habitat. We are
    involved in ocean wildlife conservation activities.

    Yet because we operate our ships as vegan vessels, other groups, and
    now the media dismiss us as an animal rights organization.

    Now first of all I don't see being accused of as an animal rights
    organization to be an insult. PETA was co-founded by one of my
    crew-members and many of my volunteers come from the animal rights movement. But
    it is not accurate to refer to Sea Shepherd as animal rights when our
    organization pushes a strict conservation enforcement policy.

    And secondly we do not promote veganism on our ships because of animal
    rights. We promote veganism as a means of practising what we preach
    which is ocean conservation.

    There is not enough fish in the world's oceans to feed 6.6 billion
    human beings and another 10 billion domestic animals. That is why all the
    world's commercial fisheries are collapsing. That is why whales,
    seals, dolphins and seabirds are starving. The sand eel for example, the
    primary source of food for the comical and beautiful puffin is being
    wiped out by Danish fishermen solely to provide fish meal to Danish factory
    farmed chickens.

    This is a solid conservation connection between eating meat and the
    destruction of life in our oceans.

    In a world fast losing resources of fresh water, it is sheer lunacy to
    have hundreds of millions of cows consuming over 1,000 gallons of water
    for every pound of beef produced.

    And the pig farms in North Carolina produce so much waste that it has
    contaminated the entire ground water reserves of the entire state. North
    Carolinians drink pig s**t with their water but its okay they say, they
    just neutralize it with chemicals like chlorine.

    Most people don't want to see where their meat comes from. They also
    don't want to know what the impact of their meat has on the ecology.
    They would rather just deny the whole thing and pretend that meat is
    something that comes in packages from the store.

    But because there is this underlying guilt always present, it manifests
    itself as anger and ridicule towards people who live the most
    environmentally positive life styles on the planet – the vegans and the
    vegetarians.

    This is demonstrated through constant marginalization especially in the
    media. Any organization, like Sea Shepherd for example, that points out
    the ecological contradictions of eating meat is immediately dismissed
    as some wacko animal rights organization.

    I did not set the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society up as an animal
    rights organization and we have never promoted animal rights in the
    organization. What we have promoted and what we do is oceanic wildlife and
    habitat conservation work.

    And the truth is that you can't practise solid and constructive
    conservation work without promoting veganism and/or vegetarianism as
    something that promotes the conservation of resources.

    A few years ago I attended a dinner meeting of the American Oceans
    Campaign hosted by Ted Danson. He opened the dinner by saying that the
    choice he had to make was between fish and chicken for the dinner, and what
    was the point of saving fish if you can't eat them?

    Guest speaker, Oceanographer Sylvia Earle put Ted in his place by
    saying she did not think that he was being very funny. She said that she
    considered fish to be her friends and she did not believe in eating her
    friends. So neither Sylvia nor I ate dinner that night.

    I met Sylvia again at another meeting, this time of Conservation
    International held at some ritzy resort in the Dominican Republic. Harrison
    Ford was there and the buzz was what could be done to save the oceans. I
    was invited as an advisor. I sat on a barstool in an open beachfront
    dining plaza as the conservationists approached tables literally
    bending from the weight of fish and exotic seafood including caviar. I
    looked at Sylvia Earle and she just shook her head and rolled her eyes.

    The problem is that people like Carl Pope, the Executive Director of
    the Sierra Club, or the heads of Greenpeace, World Wildlife Fund,
    Conservation International and many other big groups just refuse to accept
    that their eating habits may be just as much a part of the problem as all
    those things they are trying to oppose.

    I remember one Greenpeacer defending his meat eating by saying that he
    was a carnivore and that predators have their place and he was
    proud to be one.

    Now the word predator in relationship to human beings has a rather
    scary connotation having nothing to do with eating habits, but for any
    human being to describe themselves as a carnivore is just plain ridiculous.

    Humans are not and have never been carnivores. A lion is a carnivore as
    is a wolf, as is a tiger, or a shark. Carnivores eat live animals. They
    stalk them, they run them down, they pounce, they kill, and they eat,
    blood dripping, meat at body temperature. Nature, brutal red in tooth
    and claw.

    I've never met a human that can do that. Yes we found ways to run
    down animals and kill them. In fact we've come to be rather efficient at
    the killing part. But we can't eat the prey until we cut it up and
    cook it and that usually involves some time between kill and eating. It
    could be an hour or it could be years.

    You see our meat eating habits are more closely related to the vulture,
    the jackal or other carrion eaters. This means that we can't be
    described as carnivores. We are better described as necrovores or eaters of
    rotting flesh.

    Consider that some of the beef that people eat has been dead for months
    and in some cases for years. Dead and hanging in freezers, full of
    uritic acid and bacteria. It's a corpse in a state of decomposition. Not
    much that can be said to be noble about eating a cadaver.

    But a little dose of denial allows us to bite into that Big Mac or cut
    into that prime rib.

    But that one 16 ounce cut of prime rib is equal to a thousand gallons
    of fresh water, a few acres of grass, a few fish, a quarter acre of corn
    etc. What's the point of taking a shorter shower to conserve water as
    Greenpeace is preaching if you can sit down and consume a 1000 gallons
    of water at a single meal?

    And that single cut of meat would have cost as much in vegetable
    resources equivalent to what could be fed to an entire African village for a
    week.

    The problem is that we choose to see our contradictions when it is
    convenient for us to see them and when it is not we simply go into a state
    of suspended disbelief and we eat that steak anyway because, hey we
    like the taste of rotting flesh in the evening.

    Have you ever thought why it is that with a person, it’s an abortion
    but when it comes to a chicken, it's an omelette?

    Does anyone really know what's in a hot dog? We do know that the
    government health department allows for an acceptable percentage of bug
    parts, rodent droppings and other assorted filth to go into the mix.

    And now tuna fish comes with a health warming saying it should not be
    eaten by pregnant women or small children because of high levels of
    mercury. Does that mean mercury is good for adults and non-pregnant women?
    What are they telling us here?

    Eating meat and fish is not only bad for the environment it's also
    unhealthy. Yet even when it comes to our own health we slip into denial
    mode and order the whopper.

    The bottom line is that to be a conservationist and an
    environmentalist, you must practise and promote vegetarianism or better yet veganism.

    It is the lifestyle that leaves the shallowest ecological footprint,
    uses fewer resources and produces less greenhouse gas emissions, it's
    healthier and it means you're not a hypocrite.

    In fact a vegan driving a hummer would be contributing less greenhouse
    gas carbon emissions than a meat eater riding a bicycle.

    May be freely distributed, reproduced and published with permission of
    the writer.

    [email protected]
    Captain Paul Watson
    Founder and President of the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society (1977-
    Co-Founder - The Greenpeace Foundation (1972)
    Co-Founder - Greenpeace International (1979)
    Director of the Sierra Club USA (2003-2006)
    Director - The Farley Mowat Institute
    Director - www.harpseals.org
     
  2. slair

    slair Ubër Senior Member

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    For every cow you dont eat, I'll make sure I eat 3. Why do you think animals are here? To be retards and not develop their society? If animals had a purpose other than food, you'd be working next to one.
     
  3. tripp

    tripp Which it's a 'ybrid, ain't it?

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    Humans are not carnivores. We're omnivores. A quick look at our dentition will tell you that. You certainly won't get scurvy from a veggie (vegan or otherwise) diet but what about proteins and fatty acids? To have an active lifestyle you need protein, complete protein and a fair amount of it. How do you get complete proteins from a vegan diet without supplements? Most herbivores eat quite a bit. How many meals do you have to eat a day? I'm not trying to be a bugger, I'm just curious how it can work.

    Clearly our practices are not sustainable and you bring up an excellent point. One that is too often overlooked, given the impact that it has on us.
     
  4. Marlin

    Marlin New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rae Vynn @ Jul 18 2007, 12:36 PM) [snapback]480953[/snapback]</div>
    And neither are we herbivores. We are instead omnivores.
     
  5. SSimon

    SSimon Active Member

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    If not for saving our environment and our planet, we need to rethink our food consumption for the sustainability of our protein sources. We're abusing our ocean food sources immensely. Harvesting goes unchecked and more often than not catch thresholds are not enforced. The rate at which we withdraw our seafood is not sustainable and the manner in which we do so is usually very irresponsible. A significant portion of the catch is maimed and discarded overboard to suffer death. Unfortunately, little is being done about it.

    So I concur, if someone wants to take a step in which they are engaging in perhaps the most significant single thing with the farthest reaching benefits to the planet and humanity, adopt a vegetarian diet. Or, cut back on your intake of these protein sources.



    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Slair @ Jul 18 2007, 11:58 AM) [snapback]480968[/snapback]</div>
    Ugh. You define the purpose of a living being by their ability to work?
     
  6. SSimon

    SSimon Active Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tripp @ Jul 18 2007, 12:00 PM) [snapback]480970[/snapback]</div>
    Diversity, in a nutshell (no pun intended).
     
  7. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Marlin @ Jul 18 2007, 01:02 PM) [snapback]480974[/snapback]</div>
    And if we are not supposed to eat animals, then why are they made out of meat? :p

    Tom
     
  8. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    Why does the animal food industry take up such large blocks of land and utilize so many resources?
    Could it be because humans have taken over vast areas of land and squeezed out the resources previously used by wild animals, our original source of meat.

    Perhaps the better solution is to start razing cities and towns and restoring the natural world as it was before humans started encroaching upon it. We'd need to, necessarily take out all the people along with the structures of those razed cities since their population would, otherwise, need to be fed.

    Then, once the wild animal population is restored, we'd go back to our hunter-gatherer roots that we gave up on some 10,000 years ago.

    Please. The answer isn't to stop eating meat (that'll NEVER happen on a wide spread basis), but to work to improve the way large scale breeding and raising operations are run. We can't save the world in one huge sweep, it has to be done one reasonable step at a time setting priorities.

    Now, where's that ribeye.....
     
  9. Rae Vynn

    Rae Vynn Artist In Residence

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    I posted this to remind people to look at the bigger picture.
    This is the environmentalism forum, so take a look at the global environment.
    Even Al Gore ignores the impact of unsustainable agricultural practices, around the world, on our dwindling resources.

    Also note that I didn't write this, I just brought it here for discussion.
    But, yes, I am a vegan, and believe me, I am NOT protein deficient!
    I get my protein the same way all herbivores do... from the food I eat.

    People may not be biologically "herbivore", but we can do quite well eating as one, and when you really look at how "meat" (dead animals) are raised and processed in modern agricultural and meat processing plants, it is totally disgusting, and dangerous (disease is rampant in factory farmed animals).

    Thanks for getting a good discussion going on this issue! :)
     
  10. Devil's Advocate

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    Remember....
    If GOD didn't want us to eat the animals,
    then he wouldn't have made them so damn tasty!!!
     
  11. SSimon

    SSimon Active Member

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    Golly, the moral of this thread.........Don't "f" with a man and his meat!
     
  12. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SSimon @ Jul 18 2007, 12:45 PM) [snapback]481012[/snapback]</div>
    That's a religion I'd ascribe to!
     
  13. excuseMeButt

    excuseMeButt Member

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    Yes, but driving a Prius is at least a part of the solution.

    I've been eating chili beans with chips and salsa a lot for lunch but today I had a hamburger. It was really delicious and I'd really hate to give up eating meat and sea food completely but now I feel so guilty and kind of dirty.

    I think I'll take a shower.

    Nope, can't do that. Uses water.

    I think I'll stop procreating. Ummmm too late...got three already.

    Can't work in the wood shop...kills trees.

    Computing pollutes with toxic metals.

    Plastics...don't even mention that word.

    Turn the A/C off and sweat to save some electricity and coal.

    I'd play some music on my guitar but I really need to restring and strings are metal things forged releasing massive amounts of CO2.

    Nothing to do but praise god and write poetry.

    Maybe a good war...with spears and machetes...could reduce about half the population.

    It sucks but that's a start.

    Rome wasn't built (and didn't fall) in a day. So lets start with Prii. And the beans.

    Just my $.02

    ~buttster

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Devil's Advocate @ Jul 18 2007, 01:43 PM) [snapback]481009[/snapback]</div>
    I'd be willing to bet that humans would be pretty tasty if you didn't know what you were eating. Would god want us to eat humans because they are tasty?

    :p

    ~buttster
     
  14. skruse

    skruse Senior Member

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    It is not so much a question of what to eat, but efficiency. It takes approximately 60 calories of energy (grain) to produce one calorie of beef. This is an extremely inefficient, and unsustainable way to produce food. However, 80% of available energy is lost each time you change trophic level (going from grass to cow to human). Humans don't eat grass, but we can eat grain.

    Beef, pork and other "production" animals have a disproportional impact. In essence, a lot of energy is lost at each change of trophic level. Humans get very little of the energy that goes into producing cows, sheep, pigs, etc. Animal production produces tremendous amounts of waste which is only beginning to be put to use (bioenergy, composting, soil nutrients).

    Solution: become a Localvore - make an effort to eat low on the food chain and within 250 miles of home.
     
  15. SSimon

    SSimon Active Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(skruse @ Jul 18 2007, 01:10 PM) [snapback]481033[/snapback]</div>
    Excellent point that should not be lost in this discussion. One example comes to mind.....is it better for the environment to purchase organic produce that was grown in another country and that requires a huge sum of energy to get here, or to purchase conventionally grown produce that's grown next door?
     
  16. priussoris

    priussoris New Member

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    not really to the discussion at hand but sorta plays well together, While driving in NJ. a few yrs back we saw a farmer and a honey wagon transfering "the stuff" from the honey wagon ( ie. honey wagon = septic pumper) to a farm sprayer. The farmer then started to spray his corn fields and the odor was tremendous.

    We asked around and was told that the corn crop was only used for feed... Now the cows /pigs etc... eat this (fecal) corn and we eat the animals.
    somehow it just does not seem right. No wonder we all are getting sicker all the time. The way things are done are just for money, hey it saves money lets do it.

    Goes with the Chinese and the cardboard soaked in poison to pose as " dumplings" .


    WHAT"S FOR DINNER "BEEF"
     
  17. excuseMeButt

    excuseMeButt Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SSimon @ Jul 18 2007, 02:20 PM) [snapback]481045[/snapback]</div>
    Then there's always the question of whether it take more gas to drive to the farmers market and buy locally produced food than it would be to drive to the nearby supermarket and buy food produced non-locally. My Krogers is a 3 mile round trip. The farmers market is a 12 mile round trip. I don't really know the answer to this question but it seems crazy to burn up a lot of gas to buy a few lbs of veggies when I am going to Krogers anyway. Maybe the locals could sell to Krogers but that would likely raise their costs as each store might not have a buyer employed.

    Just a thought.

    ~buttster
     
  18. burritos

    burritos Senior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Slair @ Jul 18 2007, 11:58 AM) [snapback]480968[/snapback]</div>
    Would you eat terry schiavo?
     
  19. SSimon

    SSimon Active Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(excuseMeButt @ Jul 18 2007, 01:39 PM) [snapback]481064[/snapback]</div>
    Buttster (I like saying that), if the produce is coming from another country, the fuel footprint would be a lot less to just drive a couple more miles to get the locally grown stuff. Especially since you're in a Prius. However, I understand convenience is a matter to consider and that's not always practical.

    I keep meaning to look into food co-ops whereby you have a monthly charge and pick up a month's supply of produce that's locally grown and organic. Trouble is, you only get what's in season and I can't stand squash.
     
  20. excuseMeButt

    excuseMeButt Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SSimon @ Jul 18 2007, 02:49 PM) [snapback]481076[/snapback]</div>
    I would think that this is something that is hard to know for a fact. On the face of it, it seems stupid to pack a bunch of watermelons or lettuce on a plane and fly it thousands of miles but not having any specific knowledge I can't really say that it is. The food industry does it and makes a profit at it.

    I do know that it can be more efficient to fly people than for them to drive (even in a Prius) but I don't know the ecomomics of flying veggies. Do you have any specific knowledge that you can share and links to go along with it?

    I also know that it is frequently more expensive to buy fruits and veggies at the local farmers market. This may be for other reasons than transportation.

    So lemme give you a big "I do not know" on this one.

    ~buttster

    I wish someone would say that eating liver causes climate change. I could easilu quit that.