What's coming this year for PHEV conversion?

Hi Organik,
I think the Enginer system will push everyone to be more cost effective. Enginer is the cheapest today and probubly will not drop in price because they are working so hard to improve their system.

I do expect other PHEV kits will need to approach the Enginer cost in the future to stay viable in the marketplace.

I have a 4kwhr Enginer system and 2 more on order. Be sure to ask each cotributor what system they have. It is important to reallize that each of us is prejudiced toward our own system.

Thanks,
Dan

 

Howdy,

Yes the PHEV world is exciting, isn't it ?

I have a PICC kit in my car and so yes I can vouch for its general awesomeness (and its associated price tag...). You get what you pay for in this industry though.

Price is only one piece of the puzzle--after all, these conversions won't save you money today (or for that matter for the life of the car most likely). Unless gas hits $8 you can pretty much forget about seeing a return on any PHEV system unless you are a crazy / wicked good hypermiler (I happen to believe that it will hit $8 a gallon soon, not sure if it will happen before I get a new car or not though).

No, like I say so many times (sorry everyone who has to hear me say it again), we convert our cars to reduce dependency on foreign oil, dependency on fossil fuels, and to reduce overall emissions and not to save money. (I know you weren't complaining about prices in general, but I always like to remind people why we do these things).

That said, I'm sure Plugin Conversions is working to get costs down but this takes time and scale to do.

As for battery breakthroughs (in general to the battery industry), there are some promising battery technologies on the horizon promising up to 10 times the capacity of modern batteries, but I wouldn't hold my breath just yet. Anything that is discovered today will likely take 5 years at least to become fully researched, developed, tested, certified and mass produced.

For now, Lithium and Nickle Metal are the best things on the market--both having their strengths and weaknesses (density, weight, temperature tolerance, internal resistance, cost, etc).

Andrew

 

My first post here...

In a couple of days, will be taking my 2009 Prius for the 10KWh package from the folks at 3prongpower. Still debating if I need to get the CanView monitoring system. I will post reviews, data and pics later...Was early in the line to get an Aptera...but hey the reality of that EV hitting the road looked too distant.

Scott

 

I'm another low number Aptera reservation holder that jumped into a PHEV after losing faith that Aptera was for real about delivering a car to it's customers in the next couple of years. So far my PICC conversion 2007 prius works like a dream. Yes, it is an expensive conversion, but it is also the most thought out, evolved, and reliable system out there. Everyone has to make the decision of what conversion they desire based on their needs and affordability. I think the PHEV conversion market is healthy; there are different options out there for different needs and price.

 

Hello Organik, wellcome to the croud of the PHEVers.
One word of advise, please do not make your purchase decision only based on equipment pricing; the economic one is a game of parts troubleshooting, exchange of defective components and you will be subject to other people experimenting learning process misguidance.
Second, equipment materials and ease of installation; my advise is to have it profesionaly installed and properly tested. Do your digging on this one.
Third, also base your decission on manufacturer's reputation and warranty liability and customer service.
There are new companies that exchanged ownership with out a solid reputation and letting stranded rightfull equipment and vehicle owners.
The best luck to you on your educated decission.

PS
My PHEV conversion is based upon the Hybrid Interfaces line of products; it's a fully DIY equipment, very reasonable priced as a total PHEV package and a great one with full regeneration capture. Is is not an experimenter's type of system, I may indicate that once it's builded and assembled in the vehicle, will work forever with out maintenance.
Another link for PHEV companies will be: EEtrex, former Colorado's Hybrid's Plus, one of the innovators in the early PHEV conversions days, with hundreds of installs, mostly to government institutions.

 

My conversion blog.

This is the site for photos, reviews of my conversion: www.smilingdogsranch.com/priusblog

 

Re: My conversion blog.

Interesting. It looks like they have switched from Thunder-sky batteries to Sky-Energy batteries. Sky energy still uses the Thunder-sky chemistry of course since they are partner companies--they primarily make batteries for the Chinese military is my understanding.

I'm still curious how they can claim 50 miles of EV range while using only 60% of a ~35 mile system. I'd be interested to see real-world results from your system.

Andrew

 

i wonder what the price is for the system

 

11.6K for the 10KWh system...after nasty taxes...~12.5K, Qualifies for a 10% rebate...S

 

The 10% federal rebate requires CARB (California Air and Resource Board) emissions certification which I don't believe the system has unfortunately. There is also discussion as to whether or not the rebate requires crash testing--something else I don't believe it has.

Is the $12.5k including installation?

Andrew

 

I think the rebate is possible, though will confirm. and yes, installation included.

 

My prius blog here: smilingdogsranch.com

 

Yeah--I don't intend to crush your dreams but merely to make sure you know what to expect.

I did a bunch of research on the federal tax credit awhile back--here is a link to the last post in the thread:

http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-p...ehicle-tax-credit-question-2.html#post1026684

I know the thread was geared towards Enginer, but as I said before to my knowledge Hymotion is the only conversion company to have CARB certification.

From the language it is very clear that at the very least CARB certification is mandatory. You should follow up with Jungle Motors (now the owners of Plugin Supply / Plugin Solutions) directly as to whether or not they have CARB certification. I don't believe they themselves are convinced of the CARB certification requirement for the tax credit--hence why they claim compliance on their website. I'd specifically ask about CARB testing versus asking about qualification for the tax credit.

I believe you have to submit a copy of the CARB certification form with your taxes to qualify.

Andrew

 

Dont lose sleep over this stuff...yet. Seems you are a bit reluctant to accept there may be more than one way to skin the cat.

You can see the language here, no mention of CARB cert. or crash:

http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=206871,00.html

*Conversion Kits* (Section 1143): The new law also provided a tax
credit for plug-in electric drive conversion kits. The credit is equal
to 10 percent of the cost of converting a vehicle to a qualified
plug-in electric drive motor vehicle and placed in service after Feb.
17, 2009. The maximum amount of the credit is $4,000. The credit does
not apply to conversions made after Dec. 31, 2011. A taxpayer may
claim this credit even if the taxpayer claimed a hybrid vehicle credit
for the same vehicle in an earlier year.

As to the actual viability of this, we will see if it works when I file, just as the "Real-World" data will be posted when I have it.

Sleep well,

Scott

 

I do respect your optimism--really I do. The link you sent over is the summary of the tax credit coverage, and like all legal documents it has small print. The link I sent earlier has the definitions for the terms discussed in that summary (yes, even "Plugin Hybrid" is a term that has a multi-point definition).

The short end of the story is that the term "Qualified Plugin Hybrid" requires (as part of the definition) federally approved emissions testing (CARB--for compliance with the various Clean Air acts. You can dig through the PDF file to find what I'm talking about if you want to research it further (I cited page numbers and subcategories). The question is how strictly is this enforced (I would guess to the teeth considering how easy it would otherwise be to qualify for, but that's just my guess).

The reasoning for CARB certification is that some conversions that use EV mode actually end up increasing emissions (significantly increasing, actually) because the gasoline engine doesn't have time to properly warm up before being used.

Obviously you're welcome to apply anyway but I wouldn't hold my breath.

I don't plan to file for tax credit for the PICC system (comparably priced to yours) in my car but that's just me.

I realize this was all off the original topic but I figured I would do my best to clear the air. Perhaps more broad CARB testing is what's coming this year for PHEV conversions?

On an unrelated note, about how many miles of EV range are you seeing on your conversion per charge? Average speed?

Andrew

 

Since it's a tax credit, how strictly it's enforced depends on if you get audited and how the auditor interprets the rule. In other words, you should consult your tax preparer. FWIW, I agree with linuxpenguin here (besides, I like Linux and penguins, too!).

The situation reminds me of how some people in the HVAC world were claiming that you could claim a 30% tax credit on the entire Lennox "hybrid" HVAC system which bolts a ~200w solar panel to the system. When really, you're only supposed to apply the 30% to the solar bits of the system and a 30% (up to $1500 max) for the rest of the system. But that didn't stop people from missing the fine print or reading the law the way they chose. I suspect that some people will get a surprise if they get audited after claiming a full 30%.

 

I want to convert my prius to a PHEV and then travel around the country filming a documentary on alternative vehicles...this thread has a lot of great info for me thank you...here is the email i have been sending to different organizations:

I would like to feature your organization in my Film Doc. about alt. vehicles and the people that drive them.

It is an entertaining mix of science and sociology...I plan to drive to all of my locations in my converted PHEV prius...I have purchased the 2007 prius, it needs some work before it will run. I am researching my conversion options as well as sponsorship of my vehicle and film as I drive across the country.

Please let me know if you have any ideas for me or events that you could help me gain access to.

Genuinely,
Jonathan

 

Finally had time today to do a meaningful comparison of my Prius' mileage before and after the 10KWh conversion. I wanted to see how far I could use the conversion before the big battery (green bars begin to drop to blue) was no longer aiding the ride. This was just over 100mi, over my usual commute (90% highway) with the PHEV switch engaged the whole time, only briefly in pure EV mode (<32mph), over a hilly course that my prior mileage was 44mpg....My mileage was 76.3 over the 100mi course.

I will be doing gas-consumption testing as I have time over the next few tanks.

I have yet to test the fully charge battery in "ICE-kill" mode (pure EV with 52mph limit), just need to become more comfortable with the changes before I try it.

Scott