What would doubling the EV range be worth in a new PIP?

Should cost nothing. The volt has triple the range and is the same price

 

$0.

The current price of the PiP is what an 8kWh version should cost. You can only blame the yen-dollar rate because Toyota made a huge mistake in 2008 when they canceled Miss Prius.

 

$0.

I faced this dilemma in June when I went shopping for a vehicle. The PiP just didn't make economic sense.

I figured the tipping point between the PiP and the Volt was a 160+ mile trip.

EPA numbers ....

13 miles EV + 3 gallons highway mpg = 157
38 miles EV + 3 gallons highway mpg = 158

I figured that 99%+ of my driving trips were shorter than 160 miles and for trips longer than 160 miles I wanted something more comfortable than my Prius.

 

i would pay $5,000. more. but it would have to be gen IV, i don't want reduced hatch space. they have to figure out how to fit it all underneath.

 

I have driven a lot of different cars. Never have I got close to the EPA milage estimate. They would estimate it 25/35 c/h and my on board computer would read 18-20. The Prius was the first car where I actually got the stated mpg. At 50 mpg It makes the battery a novelty more than anything.

If you are paying $0.30 per kwh, thats about a $4.20 a gallon of gas equivalent in the PiP. So if 87 Octane is less than $4.20 its cheaper to use HV than EV. (you need off peak hours to make a difference)

If your paying $0.30 per kwh, thats about a $3.10 a gallon of gas equivalent in the Volt. If 91 octane is less than $3.10, gas is cheaper for the Volt. (fat chance finding that price).

So, because I do not get off peak rates, and my EV charging can be $0.30 per kilowatt, I wouldn't necessarily pay any more for it. If the Volt however could offer more range, people would be willing to pay more for it if they were choosing with their wallets.

 

If you haven't read these yet, you might find Car and Driver: The Truth About EPA City / Highway MPG Estimates | PriusChat and Car and Driver: Here’s Why Your Mileage May Vary (A Lot) from the EPA Estimates | PriusChat insightful.

 

Current ICE might struggle to keep its 60mpg rate with a much heavier battery pack to haul around. And doubling the EV range wouldn't happen by just doubling the size of the battery (again, because of the extra weight being hauled around)

 

C-Max Energi has more EV range and drives higher EV speed. It also cycles battery deeper. It's gas engine takes 4 MPG over the hybrid model. The cargo space also take a hit in size.

That being said, Toyota has solid Lithium battery in the pipeline for next gen plugin model. Increasing EV range while keeping cost, interior space and charge depleted MPG the same, is easier to achieve than what Volt is facing next gen.

 

Yes, I understand why, and that its normal, but the fact remains, on the prius it sure didn't vary that much from the EPA estimate and that was unique.

The point of that was that I am not so sure the Volt would have got me the 35 mpg in the city that EPA found, while I very much trust the Prius to get me the 50 mpgs.

 

Sure glad I have 7 months of real-world data already.

Hypotheticals rarely match up. We've seen countless examples over the years of how factors are often overlooked on paper, but quite obvious when actually behind the wheel.

That said, balance struck by the current configuration is a remarkably good. The next generation to this mid-cycle upgrade should be quite impressive. How much more people are willing to pay and for how much is an excellent question.

 

The Volt has about 3.5 times the range and costs roughly $2,500 more (including tax credit) based on MSRP (plus a bit more sales tax based on the full price before tax credit).

 

I wish the PiP had a larger battery equivalent to an 12 hour charge time on a standard outlet. This is because most people park their cars at home about 12 hours after work each day. A 4 times longer EV range would be nice. However, with the current size, weight, and especially price on batteries, I can see why Toyota chose such a small amount.

 

This is very well up. How did you figure the math on this. Someone should have a smartphone app to figure if it is better to plug in the to gas up

 

I just did some rough estimates, but I was off a little bit. Here is how I calculated this. (I looked up my kwh charge, its only 26 cents a kwh, but some Edison districts are charging up to 30-33 cents as I saw in another thread. Unless you have off peak pricing, your EV charging is at your highest tier.)

PIP

(A) Cost per kwh - $0.246​

(B) miles per kwh- 3.4375 (my average, but EPA rate is 3.44)​

(A/B) EV cost per mile - $0.0716​

​

cost per gallon - $3.56​

miles per gallon - 50​

cost per mile HV - $0.0712​

VOLTS

cost per kwh - $0.246​

mpkwh - 2.857 (EPA figure. Car is 500 lbs heavier so makes sense)​

cost per mile EV - $0.0861​

Cost per gallon $3.21​

mpg - 37 (using the combined EPA figure)​

cost per mile HV - $0.0867​

Pay stations are never economically beneficial really. Even if you find one that charges $0.50 per kwh, thats a $7.20 gas equivalent. So just buy some $4.60 gas instead if saving money is the goal. Of course you are helping the planet, and deriving joy from using EV mode, so factor that in at your unique value.

 

....Lets use my rates to compare PiP HV to Chevy Volt EV. Its quite interesting.

Cost per mile Chevy Volt in EV mode: $0.0861​

​

87 octane equivalent for PiPrius: $4.30​

​

For me, because I have not yet set up special pricing, if gas is under $4.30, driving a regular prius has a lower cost than driving a Volt in EV mode.

 

This thread is a good argument for auto manufacturers offering optional battery capacities. Most people use a car both for local driving and for trips. For local driving, my PiP is already perfect. These trips are totally electric, and a larger bettery would just be a waste of money, weight, and resources. For almost all longer trips, current technology couldn't provide a battery big enough, and Prius gas mileage is very good. If you could get a battery whose capacity matched the majority of your short adventures, i.e., pick your own battery size, this poll wouldn't be necessary.

Richard