What is this warning light?

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by lex, Dec 21, 2023.

  1. lex

    lex 2005 Prius, always garaged

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    After starting the vehicle, these two warning light remains on. We're aware that the amber light is the tire pressure monitor and have had it like this a long time after hearing what the dealer's charge would be. We just monitor tire pressure manually. However the red light remaining began recently. A manual states only that "There may be a malfunction in the system if the lights do not turn off. Have the vehicle inspected by your Toyota dealer." See the attached graphic from the manual. What is this red light referring to and what to do about it? Many thanks in advance.

    (Draft post – uploads not being accepted at the moment for some reason. May be migration issue.)
    (Update: The warning light I'm referring to is shown on page 187 of this manual. It's the middle row, 3rd from left. Thank you.)
     
    #1 lex, Dec 21, 2023
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2023
  2. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    Just google an image search for your dash lights...

    The forum software currently won't allow photo uploads because it needs to be upgraded to a new version and @Danny still testing the new forum version before it goes live. As in: November 2023 Server Migration Notes | PriusChat
     
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  3. lex

    lex 2005 Prius, always garaged

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    Cheers – it's the 2nd icon from the right. Now I see it's maybe an airbag warning.

    https://www.beavertoyotacumming.com/service/service-information-hub/toyota-camry-dashboard-lights/

    What lay in store for us from the dealer over this? Perhaps it's best done at an outside shop? Is it critical for proper functioning of the airbag? The defective tire pressure sensor we're not repairing for the dealer's princely sum but if others have tips on how to get it done for less, please share.

    Thanks again. Good luck (Danny) with the upgrade. This is such a tremendous resource/repository of info.
     
  4. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Before walking into the dealer with no idea, you might get that airbag light to blink out its trouble code, like this:

    Blink (a/k/a Flash) Codes – How to. | PriusChat

    Post that here and we'll know more about what's up.
     
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  5. lex

    lex 2005 Prius, always garaged

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    What does it mean to "short" pins – is it to depress a pin with a paper clip or other tool, or is it bridging/connecting two contacts?
     
  6. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    Check page 497 in the same manual

    IMG_0362.jpeg

    It could mean you have something on the passenger seat without the seat belt fastened.
     
    #6 rjparker, Dec 21, 2023
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2023
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  7. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    The latter. It's to do anything that conducts electricity between them. The terminals in the car-side connector aren't 'pins' anyway; they're the things the 'pins' in an OBD-II reader fit into. People say 'pins' just the same.

    And people mostly say "paper clip", which does work if need be, and people often have them handy, but they're not really ideal. The ends of a paper clip are often square-cut and sharp-edged and a harder metal than the gold-plated copper terminals you are poking into, and round cross-section when the real terminals are flat. If you have some bare copper wire of about the right gauge, that's even better. You don't risk leaving those terminals so they later won't fit snugly the real 'pins' in an OBD reader.

    You can even get a very high-tech "special service tool" from Toyota for this:

    [​IMG]

    It's a wire, having just the right pin terminals crimped onto it, so you know they are the proper fit for the terminals in the car. (It's got three ends because in some car models they had some dances that involved shorting more than two pins.)
     
    #7 ChapmanF, Dec 21, 2023
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2023
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  8. bdc101

    bdc101 Member

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    edit: duplicate post
     
  9. lex

    lex 2005 Prius, always garaged

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    That's a moderately complex and lengthier how-to post. I may not have the bandwidth to properly learn this at the moment. In a nutshell, it's bridging pins 4 and 13, turning the car on, and noting what lights up and the blinking pattern? Likely best recorded on video. This follows making sure nothing is on the seat or jammed in the seat belt receptacle. Is that right?
     
  10. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    That's about the size of it.
     
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  11. bdc101

    bdc101 Member

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    For what it's worth, that's how you HAD to read codes in Toyotas made before 1996. It helped that there were only a couple dozen trouble codes that the ECU actually could throw, though.
     
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  12. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    Also I've fixed the air bag light before in a Gen2 simply by looking under the passenger seat and finding broken wires because the owner of the car has two little dogs who wait in the car when she goes to work. They're well cared for with a dog walker who comes to visit every shift along with their person being near them, but at one point one of them started chewing on things under the seat. Easy repair!
     
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  13. lex

    lex 2005 Prius, always garaged

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    Shorted the pins and got 5 long and slow blinks for the airbag icon followed by a pause. Made video which I can describe in greater detail from if needed.
     
    #13 lex, Dec 22, 2023
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2023
  14. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    What came after the pause? Blink codes are uniformly two digits: (first number of blinks) pause (second number of blinks) longer pause (next code, or back to first code again).

    If you only saw five blinks each time (that is, if it was just repeating (5 blinks) pause (5 blinks) longer pause (5 blinks) pause (5 blinks) longer pause etc.), then that would be code 55, referring to the driver side airbag squib (the one in the steering pad, where the circuit goes through the spiral cable). But double-check your video to be sure that's the code you're seeing.

    A scan tool can get you more detail, because the airbag system can use the same blink code for more than one DTC. Blink code 55 is shared by the DTCs B1820, B1821, B1822, and B1823. They are all about the driver's side airbag squib, but if you read the DTCs you'll even know if the detected problem is a short, an open, a short to ground, or a short to B+, respectively.
     
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  15. lex

    lex 2005 Prius, always garaged

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    Here's a more detailed description of what was seen:

    On 8 sec
    Off 10 sec, then:
    5 blinks
    Off 1 sec
    5 blinks
    Off 4 sec
    5 blinks
    Off 1 sec
    5 blinks
    Off 4 sec
    5 blinks
    Off 1 sec
    5 blinks
    Off 4 sec (video ends)

    1. Is that definitely a code 55 for driver's side air bag?
    2. Does it mean the bag might not deploy successfully in an accident?
    3. What should we roughly expect to pay?
    Many thanks.
     
  16. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    1. Yes
    2. Yes.
    3. Depends on what's causing the problem.

    As the 55 blink code is shared by four different DTCs, it might be nice to get access to a scan tool and learn the specific DTC, which will reveal whether the circuit appears to be shorted, or open, or shorted to power or ground.

    The driver's side squib circuit runs, in part, through the "spiral cable" (or "clockspring") behind the steering wheel, which is what allows those circuits (and also the steering wheel buttons) to work even though the wheel turns. Those cables can eventually wear out from the turning of the wheel. You never quite know which traces will wear first: will you get an airbag code, or problems with the horn, or with the steering wheel buttons? Anyway, the spiral cable would be a likely suspect for a case like this, though not the only possible suspect.

    There are important notes on safety in the repair manual for anybody working on the airbag system, especially doing any kind of electrical testing of the squib circuits:

    Toyota Service Information and Where To Find It | PriusChat

    You'll learn how to be sure the system is fully de-energized before starting any work, and the right way to unclip the wiring connectors, which have their own shorting contacts internally to keep things safe when unplugged. You can use a simple meter to test wiring, when disconnected from the squib. You never use any normal meter to test a squib, or any wiring still attached to a squib.

    There might be wiring damage one place or another. A worn-out spiral cable wouldn't surprise me at all, but a bit of testing should confirm it's that or something else. Troubleshooting steps are in the manual.

    I once bought a Prius with a collision repair history, and it gave me a 55 code shortly after purchase. It turned out its spiral cable had taken damage when the air bag deployed, and it had been "repaired" like this:

    [​IMG]

    More on that sorry episode here. Don't do that.
     
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  17. lex

    lex 2005 Prius, always garaged

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    I may be technically capable of learning how to address this, and after just ringing up the dealer now to get some sense of what the charges could be, share the code, etc., I'm somewhat reluctant to have to use them, but we need to drive this car for the holidays across California very soon. And the thought of an older parent being behind the wheel of a potentially defective airbag system is a non-starter. Dealer says it's $190 just for diagnostics (but what would the repairs cost – I've asked them to have a technician call me back on that), however, no available appointments until after xmas. Are airbag systems something other shops can handle? Not sure what to do....
     
  18. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Yes, other shops can. If the spiral cable ("clockspring") turns out to be it, the price might be around what's shown here for a Toyota one:

    84307-47020 Genuine Toyota Part (be sure to check with the VIN, in case I didn't get the exact right part number)

    Bit pricey, as there's also a steering angle sensor included.

    There are much cheaper off-brand versions you can find, not so much recommended here; some of the same considerations (older parent behind airbag on $20 no-name spiral cable) apply.
     
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  19. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    If an appointment before Christmas is needed you need a very accommodating independent shop tomorrow to at least diagnose positively and possibly repair. If it is a real concern I would rent a car.
     
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  20. lex

    lex 2005 Prius, always garaged

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    Thank you - yes, quite pricey, if the spiral cable is it. And yet not an area to skimp on.