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What is combined fuel economy of PHV Prius WITHOUT plugging-in at all?

Discussion in 'Gen 1 Prius Plug-in 2012-2015' started by cycledrum, Dec 5, 2010.

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  1. cycledrum

    cycledrum PSOCSOASP

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    Maybe a weird question, but hey, some may want the car knowing it will be a couple years 'til they have a garage, or other place to plug-in regularly.

    So, what is it? What approximate FE does the demo make with no plugiing in at all?
    Inquiring mind(s) want(s) to know. :D


    --------------------

    Part of this is about what can the Prius do vs. the you know what. :)

    Oh was I supposed to do a search? :eek: I looked through 2 pages of thread titles :D
     
    #1 cycledrum, Dec 5, 2010
  2. macman408

    macman408 Electron Guidance Counselor

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    I believe most people who have test driven it have seen results similar to a stock 2010 Prius; probably a small benefit from a better hybrid battery, canceling out the small detriment of the extra weight from the EV batteries.
     
    #2 macman408, Dec 5, 2010
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  3. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    I recall seeing 51mpg floating around real-world, non-PriusChatter mileage.
     
    #3 Tideland Prius, Dec 5, 2010
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  4. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    My experience with PHV after depletion appeared to deliver the same MPG as the 2010.
    .
     
    #4 john1701a, Dec 6, 2010
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  5. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
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    I was able to drive the PHV from my house to Green Drive Expo in Madison, WI. Below are my trip logs.

    From Home to Green Drive:
    Trip report:
    - Total Distance: 105 miles
    - Average MPG : 63.7
    - Average Speed : 46 mph
    - EV / Hybrid ratio: 11% EV and 89% Hybrid
    - - Calculations break down like this:
    - - - 11.55 miles EV
    - - - 93.45 miles Hybrid

    From Green Drive to Home:
    Drive summary:
    - Total Distance: 102.6 miles
    - Average Speed: 45 mph
    - Average MPG (Prius): 71.5
    - Average MPG (ScanGauge): 75.7
    - EV / Hybrid ratio: 00% EV and 100% Hybrid
    - - Calculations break down like this:
    - - - 0.00 miles EV
    - - - 100 miles Hybrid

    On the way there, I intentionally left "late" to avoid the temptation to hypermile. I was running A/C and driving all highway in a big hurry because I had a time commitment.
    On the way back, I hypermiled with no A/C. You'll also notice that on the way back I started with a depleted battery so I got absolutely no EV mileage. This would be the best answer to your question.
     
    #5 TonyPSchaefer, Dec 6, 2010
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  6. cycledrum

    cycledrum PSOCSOASP

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    Wow! Ok so lemme see - 50+ MPG w/o plugging in, maybe 60, 70+ MPG long term depending on plug-in / driving patterns, minor loss of spare tire, cargo tray to date, seats 5, recharges on 110V in ~ 3 hours ....

    Gosh it sure looks promising. I'm interested. :)
     
    #6 cycledrum, Dec 6, 2010
  7. pappyiii

    pappyiii Junior Member

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    Using the Priius computed mileage with PHV added is bogus. You must consider the cost of electricity which is not trivial. And also the cost of replacing batteries in about 12 months. There is the risk of voiding the warrenty or extended warrenties.

     
    #7 pappyiii, Dec 6, 2010
  8. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    PHV is the plug-in model of Prius from Toyota itself... which will come with a warranty of at least 8 years and the battery is expected to last the lifetime of the vehicle.
    .
     
    #8 john1701a, Dec 6, 2010
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  9. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
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    I calculated that for me, driving on EV costs roughly 2.5 cents per mile.
    My '04 Prius, at $3.00/gal, costs roughly 5 cents per gallon.
    A 30mpg sedan, at $3.00/gal, costs roughly 10 cents per gallon.
    You are correct in that electricity costs are not trivial but the actual mathematics proves that it is currently less than gasoline.

    About that: "replacing batteries in about 12 months. There is the risk of voiding the warrenty[sic] or extended warrenties[sic]."
    What information source are you quoting or referencing?
     
    #9 TonyPSchaefer, Dec 7, 2010
  10. cycledrum

    cycledrum PSOCSOASP

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    :cheer2:
     
    #10 cycledrum, Dec 7, 2010
  11. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    I can't speak for the batteries, since they're different in the PHEV than they are in a G3 and I'm sure some Prius Cheerleader will weigh in on that. Toyota will have to provide some kind of warranty, and I suspect that with the hefty premium that they'll place on the PHEV, it will prove satisfactory. If you live in a CARB compliant state, the battery warranty is extended to something like 8/150,000 if memory serves.
    Home electrical prices are non-trivial to be sure, but some markets provide tiered pricing for off-peak usage (mine doesn't.) I don't even know what I pay for electricity---my last bill was about 100 bucks for 800-some kwh, so I'll let you do the math, but EVs are reported to be much more cost efficient than their gas counterparts even in regions that pay high prices for electricity.

    Even if you don't get some gucci charging station, I thought I read where the PHEV can be charged with a plain old 110V outlet---so do you really need a charging station?

    I don't have a dog in this fight, since I'm going to be priced out of the PHEV market for a few more years... :(
    However (comma) if there's an economical down side to the whole PHEV thing, then it's going to show up on the window sticker, not on your monthly electric bill.
     
    #11 ETC(SS), Dec 10, 2010
  12. pakitt

    pakitt Senior Member

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    I wouldn't know where to plug-in the PHV here in Munich. I don't have a garage, and most apartment blocks that have garages or public garages where you can rent a parking spot, do not have plugs to plug-in anything, including tenants' cars...

    I would need to live in a home with its own garage where I can control where the plug is and I pay for the current - not *that* common in EU...

    Lots of people live in flats parking their car in the middle of the road...and if parking in the garage, well, read above sentence... :(

    I wonder how and in which way can plug-in cars be of success in EU if things don't change *dramatically*...(i.e. plugs available along the roads).
     
    #12 pakitt, Dec 10, 2010
  13. Skoorbmax

    Skoorbmax Senior Member

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    So mileage is about the same, not a surprise.

    This thing feels like a dud, I really hope that the price is not a huge premium or else I really see little compelling in getting it. Its EV range is terrible, so if the price premium is more than $1-2k I'd find it very unlikely favorable math could be used to convince a person to purchase it.
     
    #13 Skoorbmax, Dec 10, 2010
  14. Snake

    Snake New Member

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    Do you normally get these kind of miles with a Gen III Prius? That seems awfully high.
     
    #14 Snake, Dec 11, 2010
  15. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Have you seen his mpg? He can get that in his 2004 in the summer.
     
    #15 Tideland Prius, Dec 11, 2010
  16. o2cool

    o2cool o2cool

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    Good point. In today's SF Chronicle, an article on the delivery of the first Nissan Leaf to a man in Petaluma, California, it says that the Bay Area Air Quality Management District has spent $1.3 million to install 402 public charging stations and has plans for another 400. So, tell the politicians in Munich and Bavaria that they need to start developing programs like this. Perhaps you need it more than we do in Northern California.
     
    #16 o2cool, Dec 11, 2010
  17. Skoorbmax

    Skoorbmax Senior Member

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    Good to see California still spending money like a sailor at port despite a hopelessly buggered state budget.
     
    #17 Skoorbmax, Dec 11, 2010
  18. Snake

    Snake New Member

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    How? Does he (do you) drive 40 MPH everywhere?
     
    #18 Snake, Dec 12, 2010
  19. Skoorbmax

    Skoorbmax Senior Member

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    It is high, must be on account of the nearly optimal speed and likely lethargic acceleration.
     
    #19 Skoorbmax, Dec 12, 2010
  20. NHCLCR

    NHCLCR Junior Member

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    On a related question, since the electric motor gets more power from the batteries, does the battery accept more power from the brake regeneration? If so, this could increase the MPG a bit.
     
    #20 NHCLCR, Dec 12, 2010
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