1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Featured What did they do to increase the mileage of 2020 Highlander?

Discussion in 'Toyota Hybrids and EVs' started by Ronald Doles, Mar 9, 2020.

  1. Ronald Doles

    Ronald Doles Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2019
    230
    280
    0
    Location:
    Columbus, OH
    Vehicle:
    2015 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Two
    I was checking fueleconomy.gov and the 2019 Highlander Hybrid and older Highlanders get 29 city / 27 highway / 28 average. The 2020 Highlander Hybrid gets 35 city / 35 highway / 35 average. What did they do to get such a big jump in economy?
     
  2. dig4dirt

    dig4dirt MoonGlow

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2012
    1,150
    741
    0
    Location:
    Lancaster Co PA
    Vehicle:
    2014 Prius c
    Model:
    Two
    6 to 4 cylinder?
     
    hill and Mendel Leisk like this.
  3. telmo744

    telmo744 HSD fanatic

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2010
    2,181
    769
    0
    Location:
    Portugal
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Yes, and also a increase in efficiency.
     
  4. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2016
    2,609
    1,624
    0
    Location:
    Somewhere in Wisconsin
    Vehicle:
    2013 Chevy Volt
    Model:
    N/A
  5. telmo744

    telmo744 HSD fanatic

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2010
    2,181
    769
    0
    Location:
    Portugal
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Less gas in, the higher the mileage? :D
     
    dig4dirt likes this.
  6. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    45,024
    16,242
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    The change from a V6 to a 4-cylinder played a part but significantly, it’s all the changes done to the Gen 4 Prius’ hybrid system that’s been transplanted to subsequent hybrid modes like the 2018 TCH and 2019 R4h.

    The 2.5 litre 4 is a Dynamic Force engine with a thermal efficiency of 41% (same one used in the Camry and RAV4). Tweaks to the battery chemistry (NiMH) and to the electric motors (reducing losses) as well as the inverter (reducing losses).
     
  7. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    22,447
    11,760
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Going to disagree.

    Like any car using just gasoline, the engine is the important part for fuel efficiency. The hybrid system helps, but it helps by allowing the engine to be run at a more efficient point for longer periods. Hypermilers can get near hybrid numbers by doing manually what hybrids do automatically. The hybrid system also allows the engine output to be sized to its most common use without compromising performance during the short periods it is needed.

    Look at the gen2 to gen4 Prius. The fuel economy improvements were mostly due to the engine improvements. The gen3 got a larger engine, but changes, like moving accessories from belt to gear driven, meant the range of engine speeds in which it was operating at a higher efficiency was larger than the gen2's 1.5L. The gen4's got a peak efficiency of 40%. That is approaching diesel levels of efficiency.

    Better yet, look at the Outlander PHEV. The original engine, which we still get, is an Otto cycle one designed for a non-hybrid. The hybrid system helps, but it can only do so much with a less efficient engine. The new SUV got an Atkinson cycle engine designed to work with the hybrid system, and there is a noteable improvement in efficiency.

    Improvements to the hybrid system help, but they help but leveraging the engine's efficiency more. The engine can be kept running at an efficient point for longer periods, or just shut off for longer and higher speeds when it would move into low efficiency operation zones.

    The RX and old Highlander hybrids were power hybrids with the V6. The current RX 450h fuel economy is only impressive compared the the RX 350, it isn't among hybrids. The new Highlander's fuel economy jump because of the switch to the 4 cylinder. An engine that lets the non-hybrid Camry beat the past Camry hybrid on the highway.
     
  8. rdgrimes

    rdgrimes Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2013
    1,740
    446
    4
    Location:
    New Mexico, USA
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius Prime
    Model:
    N/A
    The smaller ICE is only part of the changes. The move to the 4th Gen HV system means a thousand little changes that all add up to MPG.
    The Rav4 unproved MPG over the Gen3 HV system by 8-10%, and this was with the same (somewhat redesigned) ICE .I drove them both.
    The Gen4 system has much improved battery and charge/regen power management. Lets credit the inverter/converter for that. The 4-cyl ICE is generating more or less the same power to haul the Highlander around as the 6-cyl does, and while its a more efficient engine the difference in MPG is probably less than some folks think. Point being that the Rav4 saw the same jump in MPG without a change in ICE.
     
  9. mikefocke

    mikefocke Prius v Three 2012, Avalon 2011

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2012
    3,758
    1,677
    0
    Location:
    Sanford, NC
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    Limited

    Well this Rav4h owner can live with an extra 30 seconds to fill my tank at the slow setting. Made more pleasant at $1.939/gal today. There are others who complain on every thread in the forums, whine mightily and demand a perfect car. I look at mine (7.2k miles) and ask what I could have bought that would be more trouble free. No reason to visit the dealer other than to get the tire pressure reset from the 50 PSI they ship with (to reduce wobble) and to get an oil change just because I'm old school and like to have a change at between 1 and 2k. Not a rattle. Nothing I use doesn't work as documented. I can wait till a fix is available and if it isn't, I can still happily live with it.
     
    drash and alanclarkeau like this.
  10. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    45,024
    16,242
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    I agree with what you said. (I did mention the 41% thermal efficiency immediately after the paragraph you quoted but fair, I didn’t delve deep into it as you have).

    Off the top of my head, it’s down 50ish from the V6 version.

    Also don’t be fooled by the similar displacement in the RAV4 Hybrid between generations; the current 2.5 litre is a brand new engine under the “Dynamic Force” family.
     
    alanclarkeau likes this.
  11. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    22,447
    11,760
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    It was a major change between the engines of the Rav4 hybrid.

    The old one was port injected with 12.5:1 expansion ration. The new one is 14.0:1 using a hybrid port and direct injection system. In addition to making the engine more efficient, it can produce more power; 26hp more than the old. The combined system power is 194hp to 219hp. The new model manages that with less powerful motors.

    2016 Toyota RAV4 Hybrid AWD Test – Review – Car and Driver
    2019 Toyota RAV4 Hybrid – The Better Toyota RAV4
     
    Tideland Prius likes this.
  12. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2016
    7,044
    7,587
    0
    Location:
    near Brisbane, Australia
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Reports here are that the new 2.4 litre Outlander engine "... can switch from the more efficient Atkinson cycle at low revs and loads to the more conventional and punchier Otto cycle when more is demanded of it." Not sure how that happens - I tried to find out, but can't see anything.
     
    #12 alanclarkeau, Mar 10, 2020
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 10, 2020
  13. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2018
    7,427
    6,913
    1
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius c
    Model:
    Two
    I don't know for sure what Toyota did, but on a theoretical level this could be accomplished with an intake cam cut with a blended profile and a wide-range variable phase adjuster. Really, just an extension of variable valve timing as it presently exists. Phase it earlier for higher compression and more power, phase it later for increased expansion efficiency.
     
    alanclarkeau likes this.
  14. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2016
    7,044
    7,587
    0
    Location:
    near Brisbane, Australia
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Found this in WIKI (Atkinson cycle article):

    "A modern variation of this approach is used in some modern automobile engines. While originally seen exclusively in hybrid electric applications such as the earlier-generation Toyota Prius, later hybrids and some non-hybrid vehicles now feature engines with variable valve timing, which can run in the Atkinson cycle as a part-time operating regimen, giving good economy while running in Atkinson cycle, and conventional power density when running as a conventional, Otto cycle engine."
     
  15. Ronald Doles

    Ronald Doles Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2019
    230
    280
    0
    Location:
    Columbus, OH
    Vehicle:
    2015 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Two
    I agree with Leadfoot.

    Atkinson delays the closing of the intake valve for about 25% of the compression stroke. It allows part of the air/fuel charge to be pushed back into the intake manifold. Oil mist in that charge is what causes the oily residue to accumulate in the intake manifold which some owners remedy with a catch can.

    Using variable valve timing, they could close the intake valve earlier in the cycle. Depending how they implement it, as rpm's increase or above some rpm threshold the engine would switch from Atkinson efficiency mode to Otto power mode.

    I have notice a significant power increase on our Odyssey at about 3,500 rpm as VVT kicks in and it would probably be even more significant with the larger timing change in the hybrid engine.
     
    alanclarkeau likes this.
  16. telmo744

    telmo744 HSD fanatic

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2010
    2,181
    769
    0
    Location:
    Portugal
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Do take in account that the Otto compression limit (knock trouble) is a bit lower than the Atkinson practical limit...
     
    alanclarkeau likes this.
  17. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    22,447
    11,760
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    I think the ICE version of Toyota's new engines can do this. It is basically wide range variable valve timing. Hybrids don't really need the power boost, so they save some cost not using it there.
    Direct injection allows higher compression in Otto with lower octane.
     
  18. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    45,024
    16,242
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Umm, that wouldn’t be VVT, that’s a change in the cam lift (I.e. variable valve lift, not valve timing). It’s letting more air in.

    VTEC = Variable valve Timing with Electronic lift Control. It’s the second part that you’re feeling at 3,500rpm.
     
    Robert Holt and alanclarkeau like this.
  19. telmo744

    telmo744 HSD fanatic

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2010
    2,181
    769
    0
    Location:
    Portugal
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
  20. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    22,447
    11,760
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    The port injected predecessor has a CR of 10.4:1 for the Otto and 12.5:1 for the Atkinson. The higher ratio, and closeness to each other, in the new engine is because of the direct injection.
    https://www.motorreviewer.com/engine.php?engine_id=77

    13:1 is probably the limit of compression for DI Otto on US low octane regular. It is what Mazda's SkyActiv-G is at for here. For the rest of the world, it is 14:1. Since it is direct and port injected, Toyota's engine may not be able to go so high, or maybe it can.

    When discussing the Atkinson cycle, compression ratio is poor term. The value is really its expansion ratio. The effective compression ration of the charge stroke is always lower for these engine. Close to what a naturally aspirated Otto engine has for the fuel. Toyota could have left the CR at 13:1 for hybrids, the thermal efficiency is at 40%. Instead, they chose to trade some power for efficiency by stretching the expansion ratio a little bit. It is possible the Atkinson version has a narrower range of valve adjustment, if this would mean lower costs.

    PS: came across a site referring to the Atkinson as a Miller cycle. Technically they are right, in that the mechanics of today's Atkinson engines are the same as a Miller, and nowhere near how an actual Atkinson engine worked. Miller's design had a charger(turbo or super) though, so Atkinsons of today is only part Miller in execution.