We're now a 1-1/2 car family; bought a TH!NK City EV

Longish, with no apologies.



This funny, weird, little car is a hand-in-glove fit for the majority of our daily transportation needs. The "1/2 car" in the title refers only to the cars size, not its capabilities or our satisfaction with it.

We live 8 miles from the city center, our daily two person commute is 27 miles round trip. Essentially everything we need is within a 20 mi radius of our home; 4 major shopping centers, 5 hospitals, and all other necessities/amenities. A major factor in the purchase is that EUROSTAR, the dealer/service center, is 21 miles away. (Of course we don't expect to see much of them, the first service at 12K miles is essentially a brake system check.)

The TH!NK has a 100 mi max range, more than we need on a daily basis, even factoring a probable 25% reduction in cold weather. I haven't yet used either air conditioning or cabin heat/defrost so I don't know what kind of SOC hit they produce. Allegedly the TH!NK is capable of 100 MPGe. I just bought a Kill-a-Watt meter so I can compares miles driven to electricity used, but I haven't used it yet. I doubt that I'm seeing max MPGe's. I tend to drive 5MPH faster than when in the Prius. And I have to admit, it's a lot of (inefficient) fun to goose the go-pedal to get a fast start or squirt past ICE-bound cars who are braking for a tight turn.

Regen is in the go-pedal only, just like the Prius. But, due the power usage gauge being an analog needle-type, knowing that you're in a "no-arrows glide" state has proven difficult… there is a slight difference in the faint motor whine as you go from power to no power to regen. But as a noobie, I'm never sure. The car has two drive modes; D(rive) and E(conomy). In D mode, regen is very slight and for all practical purposes difficult to feel.

However, E mode is a wholly different experience. When you ease up on the go-pedal, regen drag is really strong and speed reduction is very rapid. You can easily modulate regen drag with the go-pedal when underway in traffic, etc.. As far as I can tell, there is no electronic interaction between regen and the friction brakes. When you hit the brake pedal, that's what you get. But the car does continue to regen when you're on the brakes. If you're used to "driving without brakes" for max FE in a Prius, driving in E mode results in needing friction braking only for the final 20-30 ft. when you mis-calculate the timing on a stop sign or traffic light.

We only have 120V AC charging now. We may not even have to upgrade to 240V and its attendant expense. On 120V, the TH!NK charges at a rate of ~6 miles/hr. For the last week we typically drove 30 - 40 miles a day for commuting and errands. Thats up to 8 hrs on charge. The charger is on an aftermarket timer from 11 pm to selected shut off to take advantage of lowest electrical rates from 11 pm to 6 am.

We don't charge to 100% SOC because we don't have too for range, and limiting charge to 80-90% should extend HV battery life. Likewise we've not been below 30% on the low end.

FWIW, all EVs that I'm familiar with have a 12V battery just like the Prius, and for the same reasons. But, due to the OEM standard in the US air conditioning bits and pieces in the very small engine bay, it can only be gotten to by putting the car on a lift. (This is the only really dumb arrangement,/feature that I've discovered so far.) But there is an always ON 12V accessory plug so you can boot up from a small battery pack or charger,)

We're keeping our GEN II for travel, trips with more than 2 occupants, and large volume hauling. Sometime in the future we will have to decide if we really need the car. There is an Enterprise rental agency ~1/4 mile from us. We drive our Prius once a week, extended weekend shopping and errands, just to keep the 12V battery charged. The differences between the two cars has actually renewed our appreciation for the finesse, sophistication, and technology of the Prius and we look forward to driving it again.

So far, we have only two irritations with the car. Due my 6' 1" height and a lowish upper edge of the windshield, I have to do some neck craning/leaning forward to see traffic lights when first in line. The second is purely Prius induced. The TH!NK does not have an SKS-like system. So that means you have to have key in hand to open the door, either remotely or directly by key. And the key is necessary to start the car. The Prius has spoiled us, and needing to remember to dig out the key is now an irritant that has to be lived with.

We named our Barcelona red Gen II, Amapola (Spanish, poppy), both for its color and my becoming a grandfather. I wanted to name the Energy Red TH!NK, Amp-apola, but was over-ruled (If Momma ain't happy, ain't nobody gonna' be happy!) and she's Esperanza (Spanish, hope… it all works out over the long run!)

All in all, we don't feel that we have had to make any compromises with the TH!NK in our particular driving situation. So far, it has exceeded both our needs and expectations.

There is a Yahoo group for the TH!NK.
Yahoo Groups: think_ev

Here is my earlier post with additional info on the car if you're interested…
http://priuschat.com/forums/other-cars/107793-there-100-think-city-evs-available-now-22-500-a.html

N.B. Curently there is some e-devil mis-match between my computer/browser and the Eurostar web site. As a result, I can't see anything related to the TH!NK on the site. I spoke to the folks there and they assure me that info on the TH!NK is there, I just can't see it as most of their pages are blacked out for me using MacBook and Safari.

 

Bisco,

A number of factors lead to our going with the TH!NK.

The LEAF was more car than we need, or want. It's a four seater, and
there were many golly-gee whiz features that we don't think we need.

It was more likely that at some point off in the future we would have
gotten an i(MiEV) before a LEAF. But then the i(MiEV) has a max range
around 70 miles, IIRC. But the prices for both were too high.

The always-on communication between a LEAF and LEAF Headquarters
frankly gives me the creeps.

On the face of it, the TH!NK has the same battery range as the LEAF,
100 miles. YMMV of course.

The TH!NK goes for $22,500, then there's the $7500 tax credit which we
qualify for. So the TH!NK comes in at about half the cost of a LEAF.
Applicable to both cars, in Maryland you don't pay the 6% sales tax on
a new EV; $1350 not spent for the THINK.

That there are even TH!NKs for sale at any price is a weird situation.
I would not have gotten one if EUROSTAR, the dealer/service provider
was not close by, only 21 miles.

The service/warranty situation is by most standards uncertain. I admit,
this is the real gamble in this gambit. It heartens me to see that a
member on the Yahoo TH!NK group is getting full factory support, parts
and a tech visit, with a PCU replacement issue.

I can see that currently the TH!NK is not for many. There is hope for
the future. It's said that TH!NK will reposition itself in the US with a
redesigned 2-seat City...



and a new 4-door. Higher prices are expected of course.

We'll have to wait and see...

 

fjpod,

And congrats to you too. :rockon:

If you get only half the satisfaction and enjoyment that we have, your
i(MiEV) will be a huge success.

When I was in my information gathering stage I joined both LEAF and
i(MiEV) boards. Learning from users who are enthusiastic and actually
doin'-in out on the road was a real help. (As you've no doubt noticed,
there are a few such folks here too.)

I see that you're also a member at myimiev.com. I think you're in
good company over there. It's getting more members and more active
every day.

The folks over at mynissanleaf.com are quite a bunch. Really
aggressive in digging into the complexity of their cars. Some of the
members operate at the extreme upper end of their range on a daily
basis. It's interesting to see what that entails. It's also interesting to
read about folks going on etended trips using L3 chargers out on the
road. Cool!

 

daniel,

I've been hoping you'd post. I've followed your EV adventures and
misadventures, Zebra to Tesla, since I came to PC 4 years ago.
You've had quite a ride!

And now we're beginning to understand why you've been such a staunch
EV user/supporter. I won't say that we have as strong philosophical
convictions as you do on the matter. However, I will venture to say
that we are having as much fun as you do, albeit in a more restrictive
mostly-urban setting.

I've thought about a battery minder for the Prius. Problem is, to do so
I'll have to run another extension cord across the back lawn; the cars
are parked some distance apart. For now, as a preliminary measures
I've turned the SKS system off and I'm monitoring the 12V battery via
ScanGauge.

We'll see how things go. I'll re-evaluate at the end of the week.

Because the TH!NK has that capacity to be so very energy efficient and
low cost tp operate, I have to fight the urge to just jump in the car and
be-bop down the road to buy something that really isn't needed right
away. With only the Prius, we rigidly questioned every excursion,
bundled errands, and aggressivly planned the most efficient route.
This is wholly an internal contest with anyone not involved none the
wiser when the choice is made; the immediate fun thing, or the right
thing to do...

Character defining moments?

 

Michgal007,

I think the car is weird, but I get many comments like,
"It doesn't look like any other car I've ever seen. Gee, it's cute!"
Many "cute" comments from women. The car may be a babe magnet.
Apparently the Norwegians who designed the exterior couldn't
care less what other cars look like. Take it or leave it. I like that
kind of attitude.

ataylorracing,

It's a cool little car... but it is bigger than a Smart Car, footprint about
like the Mini.

I'm not hawking this car as a solution to anybody's car/transport
needs, nevermind the 80% of the driving public for whom it might
work. There are just too many factors that need to be considered.
Here's why:

* You have to TH!NK really hard and long before you buy one.
As an example, lets talk about range. (This will be a probable worst
case scenario.) I've read that the car is capable of 100 miles per
charge. Yeah, maybe. But even if it will you'd be a fool to do so every
day. Cautious users don't charge above 80% SOC or run the HV battery
below 20% SOC unlesss it's needed. So we're down to a 60% SOC
useable on a daily basis. (Without getting too technical, 60% SOC is
about 60 miles range.) And in temps below 50 degF, i could loose 25%
range. Now, I've got 45 miles available daily. In the dead of winter
there will be a hit caused by the heater. In the summer the air
conditioner will cause a hit. Let's say up to 10% SOC for each. OOPS!
we're down to only about 35 miles a day in the winter. So lets go back
to those very conservative charging/use constraints. If we charge to
90% SOC and allow discharge to 10%, we get back up to a daily range
of 55 miles/day.

(This is a quick broad-brush presentation, so don't try to hammer me
on decimal places and my estimates. It won't work.)

I've spoken to experienced EVers, Teslars in fact, who say you should
plan your trips based on 2/3 of available range. Why? Simple: 2/3 to
get there and back, 1/3 "just in case." Just in case what? "You never
know!"

Back to my worst case scenario, 35 miles range. 2/3 of that is ~24
miles, just under the 26 mi I need for my commute.

* You have to TH!NK every time you put it on charge. What will we be
doing tomowwow? How much charge time to get from where my SOC is
to get to where I want it in the moorning. What is the expected weather
tomorrow? I've already touched on hot and cold weather. But what
about heavy rain? This can cause up to a 5 MPG hit in a Prius. Better
add 5-10% to the SOC.

* You have to TH!NK when you drive. Damn, this little car is fun to
drive! Sufficiently quick on urban streets to squirt through traffic.
Very quick steering for snicking from lane to lane if you feel you
have to... or what the hell, just because you want to...
OOPs, just lost 5% SOC, ~5 miles range!

We can live with these numbers at this price point.
No sweat, no range anxiety.
I can't and won't say that this is true for anybody else.

You pays your money and sleeps in the bed you've made.

 

daniel,

You are correct, my range reduction/prediction numbers come from
monitoring comments at mynissanleaf.com, so they're based on a
different car. But that's all had to go on when I was contemplating the
buy. I used their numbers for what i considered the worst case, and then some.

But, then and now, as far as range on the road goes, I will always err
on the side of near certainty of getting home every time I start out.

Sometime soon I intend to charge the TH!NK to 100% SOC and drive it
down to 10% (to 5% if it will let me go that low) to get a my-use
specific max range. I'm thinking I'll go back and forth on my commute
route, and at the end do short loops in my neighboorhood. Separately, I
should also probably do the same at PSL on nearby highways as well.

Given the much smaller area I use my TH!NK, I hope to be in the
same "never need to worry about it" situation as you with respect to
range.