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WANTED: Newest technology for future Prii

Discussion in 'Gen 4 Prius Main Forum' started by Eric "v", Jul 5, 2015.

  1. Eric "v"

    Eric "v" Member

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    SUCH AS:

    >1. A standard Li-ion battery that is as large ae our present NiMh battery for more power (and a Li-carbon battery as soon as it is proven feasible), cooled by a non-conducting fluid, not a fan that can clog. This is current technology for battery cooling.

    >2. Smaller, much more powerful axial flux electric motor that uses powerful rare earth magnets instead of copper windings. These are the current gold standard for automotive electric motors.

    >3. Much more aluminum and/or CRP (carbon reinforced plastic) wherever possible in the body. If a BMW i3 can have it so can the Prius. The Prius v body is a "dishrag". (I put 3 under-body stiffeners, a strut tower bar and front and rear sway bars in my v to get merely decent handling.) Who cares about soccer moms and their lame driving, I want a DRIVER'S CAR.

    >4.Direct injection engine - PLEASE!

    >5. At minimum Passat-like or Mazda 3-like handling. That also means the electric steering motor mounted down on the steering rack for more responsiveness and a better feel. It should not cost more to engineer in a good handling suspension system from design inception (along with a stiff body so the handling can be utilized). PLUS, good handling is a safety item.

    I'll pay another $3,000. for all the above technology. Just think, economy, power and great handling. A car like that will really sell.

    If this seems like too much for a grocery-getter than put it in a FRS/BRZ sports car at minimum. I'll buy one.

    If they don't get a move on the world is going to pass Toyota hybrids by. Keep your eye on Hyundai, for one.
     
    #1 Eric "v", Jul 5, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2015
    cycledrum likes this.
  2. MattNiem

    MattNiem Junior Member

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    That doesn't work very well with high EGR flow, port injection keeps intake valves clean.
     
  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    it already has.
     
  4. jdonalds

    jdonalds Active Member

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    1. Which ever battery works best which includes price, safety, longevity, and an assist to push the average mpg to 55 mpg. I don't care which battery Toyota selects. Li-ion batteries have issues too so if Toyota sticks with the current technology and still gets 55 mpg I'm good with that.

    >2. I believe Toyota must balance technology, selling price, and mpg. There is always something better but the cost might prohibit using that technology.

    >3. I have no issue with the driving characteristics of our Gen II. I don't understand why someone would buy a Prius, with the main characteristic being high mileage, then drive it like a sports car. If you want a sports car go buy one.

    >4.I'll let Toyota decide if direct injection makes sens or not. There are many factors involved.

    >5. See #3

    "I'll pay another $3,000. for all the above technology. Just think, economy, power and great handling. A car like that will really sell." The purchase price of a Prius is critical to me, and I believe it is one of the main reasons the Prius has been so successful. Taking a car that sells for $25K and pushing it up into the $28K range, to add those things you want, would likely result in lower volume sales. I think Toyota has the right formula.

    "If this seems like too much for a grocery-getter than put it in a FRS/BRZ sports car at minimum. I'll buy one." The current Prius makes a great grocery-getter. I'm much more interested in making sure the car has a spare tire and they design out the flying buttress console than the changes you suggest.

    When another manufacturer comes out with a higher mileage car, in the same price range as a Prius, I'll take a look. So far that hasn't happened. I believe hybrid sales are off because the price of a gallon of gas has dropped, and because Toyota delayed the introduction of the Gen IV. I'll bet they will sell quite well and Toyota will remain at the front of the pack.
     
    bisco likes this.
  5. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Not a bad list, although I have a problem with #3 lol. The BMW i3 starts nearly $18k above the base Prius. CRP isn't cheap (And there was a report many years ago, probably when they just started thinking about the Gen 4, that Toyota considered an all-aluminium monocoque for the G4 but scrapped the idea when it became too costly). I suspect Toyota wants to maintain that low starting MSRP. You could argue "well, the Prius c covers that spot so why not move the Prius upmarket?", and that's true but the Prius c is a class size smaller and there's also the overlap with the Camry Hybrid (different purposes, I know).

    Now that BMW shows it's possible to make a lower cost CRP vehicle (sub $100k), Toyota may consider that for Gen 5. Ford's also pushing for mass use of CRP (you may recall their experimental Focus a few years ago that used CRP).

    The new 7 Series uses a "Carbon Core" (marketing term). It's basically a carbon fibre unibody shell with normal steel and aluminium parts bolted on. (Think smart fortwo with its "Tridion Safety Cell" but replace the steel with carbon fibre)
     
  6. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    well we're not gonna have to wait too long to find out if Toyota implemented and of those ideas. I hope we get a nifty Gen4 vs. Gen3 detailed breakdown comparison presentation from Toyota USA like we did when Gen3 came out
     
  7. FL_Prius_Driver

    FL_Prius_Driver Senior Member

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    I find it surprising that better MPG is missing from your list. Some people might buy it for that reason.

    With the exception of #2 & #4, you are describing a Tesla. Then again, with a Tesla, #2 and #4 reduce its performance.
     
  8. UsedToLoveCars

    UsedToLoveCars Active Member

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    #5 - good suspension adds quite a bit to the cost. The prius is a cheap economy car with an expensive drive-train. It has the absolute cheapest type of suspension available (torsion beam).

    A multi-link suspension would add too much to the cost. Toyota knows exactly who its market is and what they are willing to pay. Adding fancy driving dynamics to a beige transportation pod makes no sense.

    In fact, Toyota tried to make a "nice" version of the prius - the ct200h. Sales of that car are abysmal.
     
  9. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    The Prius, the Leaf and the Volt all use radial flux motors with "powerful rare earth magnets" (Neodymium Iron Boron, likely with additives like Dysprosium for better performance at high temperatures). Axial flux machines have some inherent disadvantages compared to radial flux machines, including less efficiency at turning current into torque and difficult mechanical design. They have some advantages too, most of which are not applicable to ordinary hybrids like the Prius.

    Only the Tesla uses "copper windings" on the rotor (all of them use copper windings on the stator), because Tesla uses a squirrel cage induction machine. Such a machine has some inherent advantages over PM machines, and some disadvantages too. Tesla has a pretty good video on why they made this choice, and their reasoning was entirely rational and all the trade-offs they talked about in that video were accurately described.