Vote for Jesus

Are you sure it's not Jesus Rodriguez? (Pronounced Hay-ZOOS)? :lol: B)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(marjflowers @ May 7 2006, 01:49 PM) [snapback]251143[/snapback]</div>

That's actually another worrisome sign of politics and religion climbing into the same bed. Something that history has shown to be um er… bad! Bad! BAD! Geez when will we learn? BTW I don’t think this will be or is a political party issue although the Republicans seem to be leading the way the Democrats will soon realize that without making some headway into that voting block they will have a tough time winning elections. My 2 cents. Tony forgot to add Jailer and Executioner to his list.

Wildkow

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(marjflowers @ May 7 2006, 04:49 PM) [snapback]251143[/snapback]</div>

Hmmm....Jesus was for peace, compassion, and he was an advocate for the poor and oppressed as opposed to the rich and powerful. I doubt he would be a Republican.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(larkinmj @ May 7 2006, 05:11 PM) [snapback]251210[/snapback]</div>

Was he really?
(Luke 12:51 KJV) Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
(Luke 12:52 KJV) For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
(Luke 12:53 KJV) The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

This mentality that says Jesus would never turn me away if he is a God of Love makes me puke.
This is just another cop out to live reckless and justify.

Its true Jesus didn't reject people.. they rejected him...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ May 7 2006, 10:28 PM) [snapback]251262[/snapback]</div>

People always miss that issue. Jesus demanded you repent. The old..."go forth and sin no more" thing. Also, Jesus' earthly ministry was to the Jews. it was only after they rejected him that it was opened to the gentiles (THANK YOU!!!!!!!) Yes, I'm simplifying.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Schmika @ May 7 2006, 07:54 PM) [snapback]251275[/snapback]</div>

Many will think that was unfair to only minister to the Jews and consider the Gentiles "dogs", but Jesus did minister to one of the "dogs" and commended her faith when she admitted she was a "dog" as he responded to her humility and faith.

It was all part of the master plan to make salvation available to the gentiles.

Again, its another type and shadow of how even though Jesus loves, he turns his face if rejected... He turned it from the whole nation of Israel.... of course in His plan, they are to be redeemed too.

 

Jesus was a Marxist: he advocated sharing everything equally. But he was not a Leninist, as his attempt to overthrow the Roman Empire was purely nonviolent.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ May 9 2006, 09:32 AM) [snapback]252179[/snapback]</div>

I see it more as marxism has traits of Jesus..... thats the definition of a couterfeit.... to look like the original but still be different.

And violence is not only instituted with physical weapons of conventional war, but is also started with ideas, convictions, and non-conforming thoughts that offend establishment.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ May 7 2006, 08:28 PM) [snapback]251262[/snapback]</div>

Nope, nobody said there weren't consequences. Most of those consequences with be reaped on earth. Live by the Sword, die by the sword as they say. Living recklessly is not healthy and you'll pay for it in more ways than one.

There may be consequences beyond death. However, the concept of hell is really pointless. If you really love someone then you forgive them (eventually). There may be punishment, sure, that usually makes sense, but casting them out forever and actively torturing them is NOT compatible with someone who loves you.

You seem to think that it's an active process, "turning your back" on Jesus. Let me tell you that it's not. Our brains are wired very differently. We have (in some ways) very different spiritual outlooks. You have faith in a specific super natural (is that one word or two?) being who created the Universe and governs it. I have no such faith and would be betraying myself and my principles to believe in that god. Do I think all religion is useless and evil? No. I think that it can be used (and often is) that way be manipulative people against those who want to be told the answer and not seek it for themselves (sheepel, not necessarily people subscribing to a particular religion).

Wildkow, I appreciate your views on the seperation of Church and State. Thank you! However, I doubt the dems will change much. The religious right is actively betraying the republican ideals which they inherited. They're starting to drive classic conservatives (like me) out of the party. The next major election will be interesting to watch.

 

Excellent point, Tripp: Bible-thumpers always insist that not believing in god is an active rejection of god. To them, god is standing there, and we are saying to his face, "I don't believe in you." Whereas in fact, they are telling us to believe in a unicorn and we are looking around and asking, "What unicorn? I don't see any unicorn."

I don't reject god. I believe that the hypothesis that a god exists is false. Therefore, there is no god for me to reject.

I think it was G.B. Shaw (though I may be mistaken) who was asked what he would say if he died and found himself facing god after all. His reply: "I would say, 'Sir, you gave me insufficient evidence.' " I would add to that, "And I hope you will not hold it against me that I used the intelligence you gave me to arrive at the most plausible conclusion."

A similar question may be asked of the Bible-thumpers: "What will you say if you die and find yourself at the foot of the throne of the Flying Spaghetti Monster? Or worse yet, Allah, demanding of you why you should not be cast into hell for being an infidel Christain?"

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ May 10 2006, 06:41 PM) [snapback]253232[/snapback]</div>

Why do atheists go out of thier way to Not believe in God?.... if God doesn't exist and you truly do not believe in Him, then why are you against those who do?

YOu seem to get angry at those who have a relationship and a love that you cannot see or participate in?
Are you jealous in a God that doesn't exist?

Just because there is no God for you to reject, does not mean there is not one for others to reject.

I think its a point in your favor to say you are not openly rejecting God.

Thats exactly my point..... anyone who can see him, will believe in Him.

Jesus always pointed out those that were blind, no stupid.

Anyone with a brain in thier skull will believe if they can see.

I'm sorry you cannot see, but I'm pretty sure you never will if you do not seek.

Unless your fortunate as Paul.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ May 10 2006, 11:26 PM) [snapback]253302[/snapback]</div>

I don't go out of my way to Not believe in God- I have no compelling reason to, and thus I don't. I personally don't give a hoot what anyone else believes in.

I don't give a rat's nice person if you believe in God, Zeus,the tooth fairy, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster. That's your prerogative. Just don't tell me that I don't have a "brain in my skull" because I don't believe in it.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(larkinmj @ May 10 2006, 08:51 PM) [snapback]253314[/snapback]</div>

Sorry to insult your intelligence... its hard not to when you see something and the person standing next to you doesn't. Its not your intelligence thats the problem.. its your vision.

I don't mean to insult you. But if you ever have had time of whats called "revelation" you will realize that there are times when despite your best efforts you cannot see around the corner, but after prayer and revelation comes, you can see what was there the whole time!

I have come to a point in my life when that has happened enough that I have learned I cannot trust the input of my eyes or the logic of my brain.. maybe I'm the stupid one?..... but when dealing with the spirit realm, the brain usually muddies up the information and distorts the image of reality.

The path that creative energy and information comes is from another plane.... using logic only messes that up.
Ever tried to write a song, a poem?.. write a paper from the heart?
All of those only work if you quit second guessing it before it even appears.

When you second guess God before you even give him a Chance, you seldom will see him.

He is a great God and has little tolerance for pride and arrogance.

But there is a way to find him.

(Psa 34:18 KJV) The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.

(Psa 51:17 KJV) The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

(Isa 66:2 KJV) For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the LORD: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ May 10 2006, 11:26 PM) [snapback]253302[/snapback]</div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ May 10 2006, 11:26 PM) [snapback]253302[/snapback]</div>

I agree with Larknmj here: people who don't believe in your god are NOT going out of their way not to do it. You can walk down the street and never know who they are. Insulting people and trying to guilt them doesn't help your cause.

If I mirrored your mentality, I would tell you that you are a non-think for yourself sheeple for worshipping a myth, a mystical grey-haired goofball with a hippie for a son, who commands that you worship him and nobody else or else you'll burn for all enternity (okay, I'm simplifying things), a hippocrate who gives you an order to "not kill" but then condones genocide frequently in the "bible" - the handbook for cult members.

But see, I won't tell you that. I respect your belief, so jump down from your superiority mode, and respect the beliefs (and non-beliefs) of those around you.

It's that attitude that was partially responsible for my "enlightenment" - I opened my eyes to the world and was no longer a slave. I just don't keep preaching about it, trying to convert people, and guilt them into "my way, or no way at all". When your attitude is held by someone in power, or by a mass of people, you then have intolerance and war....caused by the belief in whom?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(larkinmj @ May 7 2006, 08:11 PM) [snapback]251210[/snapback]</div>

Once again, Michael, I am humbled by the breadth of my agreement with you...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ May 10 2006, 08:26 PM) [snapback]253302[/snapback]</div>

I do not go out of my way to not believe in God. I simply do not believe in him. The question would never arise if Bible-thumpers were not constantly in my face about it.

And I am not against people who believe in god. The majority of people who believe in god are normal people just like the rest of us, except for their curious belief.

But I am very much against people who want to subvert the Constitution of the United States by establishing their own particular religion through the back door, trying to pass laws that would force me to live by their particular religious taboos, that would force biology teachers to teach lies to school kids, that would force kids to say prayers to a god they may not believe in, that would deny the most basic civil rights to people who they have chosen to hate (people of color when I was young, and GLBTs today) etc., etc.

I am against people who want to force me to live according to their religion. I am not against people who believe in god. Fortunately, the former are a minority of the latter. Unfortunately, they are a very powerful minority that has managed to swindle its way into the highest positions of government.

When people stop trying to use god as an excuse to hate other people, and when they stop telling me I'm going to hell for not believing in their particular god, then this conversation can end and we can agree to see the world through different eyes.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ May 11 2006, 04:21 PM) [snapback]253694[/snapback]</div>

Well said Daniel!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ May 11 2006, 01:21 PM) [snapback]253694[/snapback]</div>

No one has ever tried to "force" you to believe in God unless it was maybe your parents....
People want the freedom to believe in God and when those people outnumber the people who don't want to believe in God, it appears as coersion when they do it in the schools, on the media etc. But they are demonstrating their belief. If they hate those who do not see things thier way, then they are the ones at fault.

My point is that all the whiles you are screaming descrimination and foul play because you are outnumbered, the Christians are too proclaiming foul play because they are no longer free to demonstate thier belief in public areas such as schools.

The majority has become the minority.
Its true on so many other levels too besides religion.

THe most intolerant are the ones who are acting as the victim, when in reality they are the aggressors, as they are the most intolerant of Christians free speech.

Christians are not the ones marching on the streets protesting gays, liberals etc.. its the other way around.
Who is really the victim here?