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Featured Volvo SUV Plugin XC90 T8; EV Range is BS?

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by hill, Apr 29, 2016.

  1. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Volvo Supposedly claims ~ 25miles. Owners report ~ ½ that range. Consequently, the sharks are circling;
    Volvo Being Investigated for EV-Range Claims - EVWORLD.COM

    Even if partly true, it makes one wonder why manufacturers don't learn from other manufacturers prior screw-ups.
    .
     
    #1 hill, Apr 29, 2016
  2. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    Some do, some don't, some never start down the path to the "dark side".
     
    #2 Zythryn, Apr 29, 2016
  3. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Just found out that the US EPA States Volvo's EV range as 14 - 15 miles. But what I can't find is how recently the EPA made that determination. Whatever it is, it looks like it's something more than just translating between the US & European test Cycles.
    .
     
    #3 hill, Apr 29, 2016
  4. JohnF

    JohnF Active Member

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    That article contains the comment: "Similar complaints were made about Honda's original Civic Hybrid back in 2012 now when owners complained they weren't getting anywhere near the miles-per-gallon fuel economy the company claimed for the car."

    I don't think those complaints are similar at all. In that case, Honda advertised the EPA numbers for the car (49/51mpg) as it is supposed to do, and one owner in particular took that as a guarantee, which EPA numbers explicitly are not. They are a basis for comparison between different vehicles, nothing more. She claimed she was getting at most 42mpg on her 2006 HCH, waited 5-6 years to contact Honda, and first did so via a lawsuit. She refused to let Honda inspect her car. Obvious questions: Were the tires on it the OEM size (if too large, ODO and MPG would read wrong)? Were they LRR (or the equivalent in those days)? What pressures? What were the results if someone else drove her car (is she a lead foot, does she do a lot of short trips, drive fast, accelerate hard?)? And so on.

    Honda was certainly having battery problems then, installed a software update which some owners thought reduced mpg (a similar update on my Insight-I had no effect on my mpg), and settled a class action lawsuit whose payout she rejected. She won a $10,000 judgement in small claims, lost it on appeal, and ended up paying Honda $75.

    Story is here:
    Honda wins appeal in Civic hybrid mileage lawsuit - latimes

    People here are used to the concept that a car does not get a fixed mpg no matter what: fuel economy is a range, not a set number. Some Prius owners get less than EPA, some more, depending on a lot of factors. EPA testing was intended to stop inflated mpg claims by manufacturers, and instead it has had the unintended consequence of making some people think that the EPA rating is guaranteed, and furthermore that they can drive like an idiot and still get that number.

    It seems that something similar to EPA numbers will be needed for these electric range claims. The AER range surely must depend on factors such as how the car is driven (especially how fast!).
     
    #4 JohnF, Apr 29, 2016
  5. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Um no, she didn't take 46/51 as a guarantee .... she was wronged on TWO fronts. The batteries were programmed to run so aggressively (to get the fake 49/51mpg #'s) that many Honda traction packs failed prematurely. The Honda "fix" was to tune the traction pack's controllers down to save the battery's longevity, at the EXPENSE of the unrealistic 46/51mpg.

    imo someone's letting an old story get their shorts all bunched up ;) even so ~ I'll follow you off topic -
    Imagine that ... Mrs Peters rejecting a $100 class action settlement coupon. Whopeee !! So yea, she didn't roll over. BUT even so - MANY OTHERS in non-California states opted out of the class action too - and at the writing of the article that YOU linked to, one of those who opted out DID win their suit. The difference really is how well the plaintiff prepares (conforming to all civil procedural rules properly, form completeness, etc).
    ie;
    similarity or dissimilarity to Volvo has nothing to do with coming to Honda's defense here, via an LA Times news writer .... who BTW, evidently doesn't know what the heck (s)he's talking about. For instance, take the journalist's statement;
    "... In states where lawyers are barred from Small Claims Court, these companies would have to train non-attorney employees on how to mount a courtroom defense. .... "​
    Um, no - that's called practicing law w/out a license. The fake attorney & the corporation that put the poor fool up to it could both be sanctioned. Similarly, many of the journalists that wrote about the story got it outright wrong ... writing that Heather Peters sued because her Honda didn't get EPA #'s, when as mentioned above, the plaintiffs sued due to premature traction pack failures ... NOT ... EPA signage being knowingly false. If plaintiffs fail to articulate that issue with precision, then yea, Honda wins by default, because a judge has nothing to go on. Plaintiff says "poor mileage" (not that traction pack fails prematurely - 10yrs or 150K mile warranty in Cali) and all Honda has to do is defend with, "hey - your mileage may vary".
     
    #5 hill, Apr 29, 2016
  6. JohnF

    JohnF Active Member

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    Ignores the facts:
    - she is an attorney (license lapsed during this period) and hoped to get work handling suits by others against Honda
    - she did not try to work with Honda to resolve the issue in the 5 years she owned the car prior to filing suit
    - she refused to let Honda examine the car
    I'm done.
     
    #6 JohnF, Apr 30, 2016
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