Volt Fraud At Government Motors

What do you think Obama is going to do... He's going to blame Bush.

 

Don't you boys have anything better to do? Go look for Glenn Beck's birth certificate, or something.

By The Way, the government has a good chance of making a profit on the GM bailout:
http://money.cnn.com/2010/09/27/news/companies/gm_ipo_bailout_profit/index.htm

 

The problem is you need an educated society for capitalism to actually be more efficient at greening the country. With anti-environmental marketing and politics it becomes difficult to gain headway without government regulation supporting greening efforts. Unfortunately we end up in a sort of impasse because government is corrupt and inefficient and the general populace is uneducated in environmental issues so capitalism doesn't work perfectly either. I can only laugh at people who think either government or free market capitalism can solve all our problems. If someone could wave a magical wand and remove greed, corruption, and ignorance from the world then either system would be viable. lol

 

THAT"S A GOOD One Richard!:cheer2:

 

IIRC: the Legislative branch of government (Congress) enacts the laws; the Judicial brach (the Supreme Court) interprets the laws enacted by Congress; the Executive branch of government (the President, et al) implement the laws enacted by Congress. Therefore: the "....lying sacks of %#$@^ and corruption." would be Congress.

Or have I missed the point?

Marshal

 

With no credit at 41k this thing would flop. It might still flop at 33k.

33k=loaded Prius
41k=knocking on the door to a Lexus RX 450h

 

That's what the definition of a business loan is!

If you went to the bank, and said:

Ok Mr bankman, here's the dealy-o. I want you to loan me $100,000 so I can open up my great new business. I dont expect it to be profitable, and I have no intention of paying you back, but it is a good investment on your part.

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You probably arent getting the loan. People routinely borrow much more money than they can afford to on the gambol that their idea/business/scam will be profitable resulting in a good chance of paying back the bank. Depending on just how "good" of a chance that is, your interest rate goes up or down.

As to the rest of the stuff, the Volt and the Prius were designed to be completely different animals. Unfortunately one of them will probably go the way of the do-do and leave behind the same reputation as its feathered friend.

 

So there's proof that GM didn't just overestimate the Volt's performance and instead "lied"? Or that they tried to use a different way of calculating whatever to show their product in a good light (like just about -every- corporation does)?

Don't get me wrong. I predicted it would never go into production. I still have a good chance of being correct.

Oh, and wow, there are some extreme right wing views in Florida aren't there? You guys should move to Canada for a few years to learn some -other- views of politics.

I did get a laugh when Jay Leno showed two clips of politicians "throwing out the first pitch". One was Obama and the other was also a Democrat. Both missed the plate by a good distance, the "funny part". Jay didn't notice or comment that it was to the left!

 

Neither Congress, nor the Supreme Court work for the President. Is there some instance of Executive branch corruption that you have in mind? We could talk about that if you like. I'd support any verifiable claim that you have.

Marshal

 

Why don't we just see what happens when it's eventually released for sale?

If its a lemon then it'll fail and Toyota & Nissan will be laughing. If it's a success (you never know!), then surely its a great thing to get people out of their gas guzzlers into a more efficient vehicle?

Also, even at 25 miles, the range is still further than the proposed Prius plugin.

 

I must be mis-remembering this. Didn't GM decide to do the Volt way before they went bankrupt? Didn't they give out range and MPG figures before the bailout? Didn't GM also develop a hugely unsuccessful two-mode hybrid for their biggest SUVs? Again, pre-bailout.

Just pinging Wikipedia on the Volt, I see quotes from Lutz on the Volt dated 2007. Again, from Wikipedia, the first bridge loan to GM ($13.4 billion for GM and Chrysler) was authorized by President Bush, in December 2008. It lists the Obama administration as refusing to fund GM without a bankruptcy at the end of March 2009, and the bankruptcy filing as June 1 2009.

I also vaguely recall cars like the Prius getting a jump-start from the tax code. Seems like that was 2006 -- the year after I bought mine.

Guess I'm just not seeing this in quite such black-and-white terms. The "lies" started off as 100% pure private-sector lies. The initial decision to fund GM was made in the Bush administration. Screwing with the tax code is a fine old American tradition. And the Volt amounts to squat, one way or the other, for GM's near-term viability. I'm just not quite understanding the vitriol toward the current President, out of all that.

Edit: Well, the more I look, the more confused I get. Which CEO should be axed here? The one who just left on 9/1/2010, after seeing GM return to profitability, or the guy who just started the job on 9/1/2010?

So, if I understand the argument here, the President is culpable because he is not pressuring GM to fire a guy who is two months into the CEO job, even though the company as a whole is profitable, because the Volt does not perform as well as it was supposed to, and therefore should be killed. Seems a little harsh, to dump all that fixed cost for developing the Volt, and get no return, plus kill that guy's career, on account of what other people said earlier about the Volt. Guess if it were up to me, I'd at least see if he could sell a few first, before I fired him for what his predecessors in the job said about the Volt.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/08/12/gm-records-profits-year-stock-offer-premature/

 

Risks sometimes prove to be worth it. I wouldnt have given them the loan on belief of their product, but I would give it to them for the reason it actually was, too big to fail. The sad reality is that any other course of action with GM would have had worse consequences for the US. This was sort of like chopping off a limb so it doesnt spread and kill you. Not something you want to do, but really the only other options were death and painful death.

Both and both, but my point is directed towards the former.

They are both meant to fulfill the green/hybrid market as well as meet fleet eco standards.

The Prius' approach is a nimble little machine that does everything it is supposed to really well will all the tech comforts to make a collective member of the Borg feel at home. (If wonder the what the Borg would make of the Nissan Qube?) The current model is not meant to run in EV mode, it is meant to reduce emmisions, and it does that brilliantly even with the sacrifice of a few mpg's at startup. The PHV version is meant to be a short range EV commuter that if you need to go longer distances doesnt really differ much from the original. Slightly extra weight, but from the initial reports, that doesnt effect it much. That is an evolutionary step forwards.

The Volt's approach was at first to create a beast of an EV that any redneck would be proud to own. This was glorified in their TV commercials eons ago with the camero concept car as what the volt would look like. I was even on board then. I figured an EV that looks like a sport's car with an american logo would appeal to the exact market that would never buy a Prius because it is not flash enough or because it isn't 'merican. The crap they have come out with will not satisfy those that want a flash car, or those that want a fast car. If there was only the Prius and the Volt, then those with short commutes that rarely drive more should buy the Volt (assuming quality was equal which we know it isnt). But the Volt is now competing against the Prius, the PHV Prius, the Lexus hybrids for those that want comfort and speed, the upcoming mercedes hybrids for those that want comfort and speed and something german, of course the Leaf which is essentially the Volt they promised us years ago sans flash, the Tesla which is the Volt they promised years ago but with a hefty price tag, and the list goes on.

Basically it is already obsolete before it comes out. As if a VCR company just decided this year to start making DVD players, even though all their competition has had DVD players and bluray players on the market for years that are better anyways. Someone will always be stupid enough to buy it, but it is not going to outsell the better ones.

Yeah, but the Volt gets infinite gas milage when you only drive to church on sundays or whatever it is little old ladies that dont know any better do. There is an evolutionary step forwards with a plugin hybrid, or just plain plug in electric vehicle. The volt is just a poorly executed evolutionary step, and Darwin says it will die out.

I dont agree with this. Any way you slice it, even using the dirtiest coal burning plants in the states, and EV or plugin is no worse than a petrol-only vehicle like our Prii. On an average day they are much better. So even if people drive the Volt, and it underperforms and really isnt that great, it is less natural resources being consumed per mile driven assuming you stay in EV mode. Lets say the pack is depleted and you are driving around at 35mpg, if the person in the Volt replaced their Hummer with it, then it is still a net improvement. Not the best, but an improvement. We need baby steps, and the volt will work for some people. The main problem is lots of other cars will work better for the same people.