1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Valve tap?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Technical Discussion' started by toyofan, Dec 5, 2022.

  1. toyofan

    toyofan Junior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2010
    6
    0
    0
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Hi All,
    I have a 2005 model with 202,000 miles. It sounds as though it has a valve tap but not sure. It has recently worsened, and it's annoying. I don't hear it when the engine is cold but will "tap" in a somewhat random rhythm when more warmed up and under moderate acceleration, and more in hot weather. If I accelerate hard, I don't hear it and the tapping sound stops when going from moderate to hard acceleration. I used to not hear it when cruising at highway speeds, but now hear it faintly. I bought it used from my father-in-law at 85,000 miles and he had it regularly serviced by the dealer. I don't know if this has anything to do with the problem, but the dealer inexplicably always used 10w-40, which I verified. Anyway, I've never let the oil run low and use synthetic, changing oil every 10,000 miles. It burns a qt every 3500-4000 miles. The sound appears to be coming from the top of the engine, but can't be sure. Could it be something else? Isn't a valve tap more noticeable when cold? I've done the BG products 3 part engine restore system and replaced the PCV valve but none of that affected oil consumption or the tapping sounds. Also recently replaced the spark plugs and igniters, but again no change. Any thoughts on the source of the problem?
     
  2. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2007
    10,096
    4,817
    0
    Location:
    Clearwater, Florida
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    The Prius motor uses solid lifters so has fairly loud valve noise anyway kinda like a loud sewing machine.
    And yours is starting to eat alot of oil too.

    I would move up to a synthetic 40 weight like 5-40 right now now. It wll help the oil loss. and the noise.

    Also be aware when the hybrid battery starts to not provide rated power the main power source falls on the motor which is very hard on the motor as you have to push the car much harder. The main power for this car is the hybrid battery when that starts to go by by the car becomes a slug.
    It happens so slowly over the years you don't even notice you just push the gas pedal harder to get to the speed and acceleration your used too. The result is poor mpgs. And a whupped motor.

    So i would start looking very closely at the hybrid battery.

    Repairing loud lifter noise requires replacing shims in the valve train to make up for cam and lifter wear. Big job cams have to come out. better to just replace the motor with a used motor. At your mileage your getting there..
     
  3. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    56,686
    39,222
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    Toyota USA says every 5K miles for second gen, IIRC. Then with 3rd gen, they lost their minds, doubled it...

    Here's some Repair Manual info on the valve clearance check:
     

    Attached Files:

  4. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2018
    7,433
    6,916
    1
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius c
    Model:
    Two
    This is easily actionable.

    Get a mechanic's stethoscope and (literally) poke around. They're cheap and you can learn a lot about this situation with relatively little time, effort & money involved.
     
  5. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2008
    24,906
    16,213
    0
    Location:
    Indiana, USA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    Not only that, there are no shims in this engine. Instead of using solid lifters with a variety of replaceable shims, they make the solid lifters themselves in 35 different sizes, for intake and for exhaust, and used with no shim.

    To do a valve adjustment, you: measure all 16 current valve clearances, and write down the correction needed for each one to bring it into spec. Then disassemble the valve train, micrometer all 16 lifters to find out what sizes they are, and add or subtract the correction to find out what size each one should be. Order the 16 lifters you need (or, if you're lucky, some of the sizes you need will be among the ones you already have). Wait for your order to come in, including that one size that probably wasn't in any US warehouse and comes in two months from Japan. Then reassemble the engine and you're back in business.

    I had a thread about when my Gen 1's 1NZ engine started making such noises. I never found a smoking gun, though. There did appear to be visible wear on some cam lobes.
     
    Mendel Leisk likes this.
  6. toyofan

    toyofan Junior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2010
    6
    0
    0
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    OK, sounds like the consensus is that I'm indeed hearing valve tap and that valve adjustment is not a realistic option. Was hoping that the noise was something else since I had read earlier that valve adjustment is ridiculously difficult for Gen 2 series, as was reflected in the above posts. I forgot to add that I replaced the traction battery myself with a new battery 2 yrs ago from newpriusbatteries which is working great. I'm getting great gas mileage (46-50 highway), and the acceleration is still pretty good. So, a few follow up questions. One, is there a recommended 5w-40 oil brand/type for this situation, since 5w-40w is being recommended? Two, is synthetic still better than conventional? Three, since the synthetic brands I buy say their oil will go 10,000 miles (or more) between oil changes and it saves me lots of time to only change the oil that often, am I harming my engine? Four, should I expect the valve tap noise to get progressively worse? Last, when I bought the car at 85,000 miles, it burned a qt every 5000 miles or so, so is burning a qt every 3500-4000 at 200,000 miles unusual? I'm wondering about that since I'm trying to gauge how much life there is left in the car. I was hoping to get to 300,000 since I do really like the car. Wishful thinking?
     
  7. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2018
    7,433
    6,916
    1
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius c
    Model:
    Two
    5w-40 is an odd weight. One of the more popular ones you might find is Shell Rotella T6.

    Don't use it in your Prius.

    It's formulated for diesel engines, and it has a significant amount of extra zinc in it. It's a really good product and it works well, but the zinc additive, when burnt in an old engine known to burn oil, will poison the catalytic converter and clog it. Obviously not an issue on diesel vehicles as they do not include catalytic converters, but it becomes an issue for "off-label" usage like this.

    Castrol and Mobil both make 5W-40s formulated for gasoline engines. No zinc problem. Maybe not as easy to find but they are out there and they're more appropriate for your plans.

    Good luck!
     
  8. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2008
    24,906
    16,213
    0
    Location:
    Indiana, USA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    While I never found a smoking gun for the noise in my Gen 1, I drove it years longer, 40,000-ish miles, with no resulting problem. The noise did not determine how long I could keep the car. An eastbound Dodge Dakota did that.
     
    Mendel Leisk likes this.
  9. toyofan

    toyofan Junior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2010
    6
    0
    0
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Thanks for the suggestions. Will find some 5w-40 and see if that helps. If not, then will just live with it.