University of Florida Student Tasered Into Submission

Apparently, freedom is just one of those historical concepts people study, rather than something that actually exists.

 

There is no doubt he shouldn't have been arrested...but why on earth did he resist them? If he had gone quietly they probably would not have tased him, and the arrest in itself should have attracted enough attention to this issue.

 

Check out the video's of it on youtube.

He deserved to be tasered after he resisted arrest. The police arrested him reasonably, his reaction was quite bad.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Sep 18 2007, 07:31 PM) [snapback]514609[/snapback]</div>

I think the Tasering was an excessive use of force. 1 vs. 6 (or even 4) does not justify being Tasered absent some extenuating circumstance. The latest that I have heard come out of the university's P.D. was that the individual was verbally abusive as a justification for the Tasering....

Regarding risks to the officers, the event was pretty well documented. I counted at least 3 cameras recording the event in one video that was posted. Depending on the transparency of the investigation, any risk to the officers should come out.

Regardless, it was a bad day for freedom of speech.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Sep 18 2007, 07:53 PM) [snapback]514619[/snapback]</div>

That sounds like a distinction without a difference. Are you saying that Meyer was Tasered because he would not shut up?

 

Violence only escalates until the detainee gets subdued. There is no middle ground, no "nice" answer. What exactly happens if there is no taser? Most of the time there ends up being a lot of blood. Not a good thing in the age of AIDS. This does not register with a lot of people that watch. It absolutely registers with those wrestling with someone whos next move could be to grab a sharp object, grab a gun, or attempt to bite, poke an eye, etc.

The question remains. What is the better way of handling this? I don't see one.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(FL_Prius_Driver @ Sep 18 2007, 08:08 PM) [snapback]514636[/snapback]</div>

Ever heard of pepper spray?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Sep 18 2007, 08:51 PM) [snapback]514647[/snapback]</div>

Perhaps you should re-think your position on restraining people. Two NIJ-funded studies explored the safety and effectiveness of pepper spray in real-life arrests. I am including an excerpt from one study:

The Effectiveness and Safety of Pepper Spray

Pepper spray, or oleoresin capsicum (OC), is used by law enforcement and corrections agencies across the United States to help subdue and arrest dangerous, combative, violent, or uncooperative subjects in a wide variety of scenarios. Though generally assumed to be safe and effective, the consequences of the use of OC, as with any use of force, can never be predicted with certainty. The need for reassurance on these points remains. This Research for Practice summarizes the results of two unpublished NIJ-funded studies on the safety and effectiveness of pepper spray in real-life arrests and compares them with previous studies. The goal: to expand the scope of knowledge on this complex subject.

One study looked at officer and subject injuries in three North Carolina police jurisdictions before and after pepper spray was introduced. The other examined 63 incidents nationwide in which people were sprayed with OC in the arrest process and later died in custody.

The North Carolina study found that the number of injuries to police officers and suspects decreased after pepper spray was introduced. Complaints that the police used excessive force also declined. [Emphasis added.]

Oh and BTW, Meyer was already on the ground and under control when he was Tasered.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Sep 18 2007, 10:52 PM) [snapback]514685[/snapback]</div>

We are getting into the weeds, but there are a variety of pepper spray products that have capabilities ranging from the spray stream that you are referencing to foam agents, close-in spray agents, combination of pepper spray with mace, etc.

My point is that in this particular circumstance, Tasering was an excessive use of force. Based on everything that I have seen of the incident to date, Meyer is going to have a pretty solid excessive use of force claim.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(apriusfan @ Sep 18 2007, 08:10 PM) [snapback]514637[/snapback]</div>

Yeah . . . it's a good way to clear an entire room, even though you are only trying to subdue one person. <_<

This is soooooo not a question of an individual's freedom of speech being trampled. There is a major difference between someone respectfully asking a pointed question and someone, like this jerk, hijacking the entire proceedings by going off on a tirade.

If this were a case of someone's freedom of speech being denied, we may as well not have any politically charged group meetings or discussions which are open to public participation . . . because every single one would end up being disrupted like in this case.

*Now where is that Hillary in '08 Rally????
I have some Freedom on Speech microphone time to monopolize >>> AND HOW DARE YOU CONTEMPLATE DISRUPTING ME!!!!!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Sep 18 2007, 10:53 PM) [snapback]514619[/snapback]</div>

you refer to "what one has to say is not permitted" - who in your humble opinion determines what is and what is not "permitted"? And why could he not say what he wanted to say as long as he conducted himself within the boundries of US Law and his right to speak freely? It is not as though there are administrators of speech that set strict guidelines according to their own fancy or political or personal views.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(FL_Prius_Driver @ Sep 18 2007, 11:08 PM) [snapback]514636[/snapback]</div>

Before the advent of tasers you advocated what - clubbing till silent? breaking a bone or causing harm or pain to the individual to redirect his attention to his own self-preservation?

So when club pink or some other whacko group infiltrates a Senate hearing or Presidential address the security forces should:

1. taser immediately?
2. beat into submission?

or

once they have the "perp" down and surrounded and on the ground controlled by 5 or 6 security guards they should:

1. show force to instill a fear into others who might also want to employ the freedom of speech in the United States of America?

Jeez, sounds like Iraq under Saddam or Cuba or NoKo.

Sounds like you are giving the cops and other security people free reign to act with impugnity. I have an idea for you - you should want out government to easedrop on everyones cell phone calls to see who is planning to "disrupt" public events so we can forewarn the cops.

What is your policy towards terrorists who actually try to kill innocent US civilians - shoot on sight? Here I think we actually might have some common ground.



<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Sep 18 2007, 11:51 PM) [snapback]514647[/snapback]</div>

I would love for you to define in your own words - the right to free speech - as you believe it pertains to citizens of the United States of America.

And how did you feel when he was shouting - "dont tase me bro" as he was held down by six guards and obvioulsy well subdued --- only to be tased with 50,000 volts of electricity? was that in your opinion justified use of force?

and if you want, you can tell me your opinion on the use of force in the rodney king case - they of course had the right to beat the shi*t out of him - obviously if you think tasering a defenseless guy who did nothing buy speak his mind in a public forum - who was not running away from the cops and endangering their lives in the process - what degrees of force do you think the cops have in the rodney king case or cases like that when their lives and lives of innocent civilians are put in jeopardy?

another poster said they have to consider the spilling of blood and the risk of aids - do you think the cops have to take that into account too?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Sep 19 2007, 01:52 AM) [snapback]514685[/snapback]</div>

Why the personal attack Evan? Is it appropriate on this BB to attack people. Is that your freedom of speech thing you are exercising? I dont think the guy who got tasered insulted Mr. kerry the way you just insulted me.

Jeez, I did NOT even make one post here, and you let me have it between the eyes - in fact i was probably sleeping at the time you attacked me here. At least John Kerry was awake and could have answered this poor guy - if he had the chance to - before those who ruled his speach was out of "line" beat him to the ground with a 6 to 1 advantage and then tasered him while he was FACE DOWN on the ground with his hands behind his back.

Who watches those who watch others? Who sets the rules? Are the rules applicable to all or just to some? Are personal attacks allowed on this BB? Or do just some priviledged few make the rules of speach here and get the right to operate outside the guidelines they set for others??

This does not seem like very liberal thought or behavior to me.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Sep 19 2007, 01:52 AM) [snapback]514685[/snapback]</div>

Why the personal attack Evan? Is it appropriate on this BB to attack people. Is that your freedom of speech thing you are exercising? I dont think the guy who got tasered insulted Mr. kerry the way you just insulted me.

Jeez, I did NOT even make one post here, and you let me have it between the eyes - in fact i was probably sleeping at the time you attacked me here. At least John Kerry was awake and could have answered this poor guy - if he had the chance to - before those who ruled his speach was out of "line" beat him to the ground with a 6 to 1 advantage and then tasered him while he was FACE DOWN on the ground with his hands behind his back.

Who watches those who watch others? Who sets the rules? Are the rules applicable to all or just to some? Are personal attacks allowed on this BB? Or do just some priviledged few make the rules of speach here and get the right to operate outside the guidelines they set for others??

This does not seem like very liberal thought or behavior to me.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Sep 19 2007, 06:52 AM) [snapback]514708[/snapback]</div>

So tell me, where did he violate his freedom of speech guarantee as provided for in the Bill of Rights and the US Constitution?