Toyota to roll out Vitz-based hybrid, possibly by Dec 2011

Wonder what's holding up the switch to Lithium batteries?

 

They have a reliable supply of reliable NiMH batteries and have reliable NiMH battery management. Lithium doesn't add much for a hybrid and is expensive so Toyota are sticking to NiMH instead of going for an unknown.

Other manufacturers like Ford and Hyundai that are new to hybrids have already switched to lithium because they didn't have the prior investment in NiMH.

 

More expensive, unknown reliability, marginal performance advantage. No brainer to stay with NiMH for hybrids. EV or PHEV is a different story.

 

Vitz = Yaris in north america.
43 km/l = 101 mpg

 

NiMH makes perfect sense for a small affordable car. If it were an expensive sports hybrid, I would say Lithium.

 

They are going to re-release the Gen 0 Prius?

Vitz
Wheelbase 96.9 in (2461 mm)
Length 150.6 in (3825 mm)
Width 66.7 in (1694 mm)
Height 60.0 in (1524 mm)

Gen 0 Prius
Wheelbase 2,550 mm (100.4 in)
Length 4,275 mm (168.3 in)
Width 1,694 mm (66.7 in)
Height 1,491 mm (58.7 in)

 

A 15 mile Yaris PHEV would be ideal for us. Prius once a week for my long drive to work, PHEV as the daily driver.

Perfect.

 

Ignoring cooling overhead (fans, heatsinks, etc) - aren't Lithium batteries about half the weight of an equivalent capacity (power) NiMH battery? Hence, for a smaller car - which means a lighter car - wouldn't actions that reduce weight have a bigger percentage impact as compared to a larger car? So, could wouldn't it make even sense to use lighter weight lithium batteries on the Vitz (than on the larger Prius)? Which leads back to my original question regarding what's holding up lithium batteries? Is it mostly cost - or is Toyota playing it safe and reluctant to use a new and somewhat unproven (in vehicles) technology? Namely Lithium batteries. If Toyota is just being cautious - is there a danger that more aggressive competitors could exploit Toyota's timidity and offer a better (higher mpg product). Of course, I'm just speculating?

 

Would it make sense to pay $1k more to save 50lbs (and gain 1 cu.ft interior) for a $15k car?

 

^^ Exactamundo

 

Lithium batteries definitely have technical advantages, but there are other considerations

CARB requires the crazy 150K mile warranty on PZEV because California considers batteries part of emissions controls. There is warranty risk with any battery changes.

Toyota is majority owner in the leading company in Nimh batteries. They appear behind the competition in Lithium technology, but in corporate politics it is often better to wait for such a company to catch up instead of switching suppliers.

It would not be in keeping with toyota corporate culture to introduce better technology in the vitz before offering it in the prius (soon in phv) or a Lexus model.

Does it really matter in the vitz? The car will not likely have great acceleration or handling. Thle penalty for using the current technology won't likely stop buyers.

Toyota will be forced to switch to lithium because of competition, but it will be on higher performing cars.

 

It appears that way but I believe PEVE is a few year ahead of Nissan with the next gen Lithium chemistry that would give Leaf 200 miles range.

 

It will be nice if they have moved beyond the products they are showing. I don't quite know what to think of Nissan's technology. Toyota in their phv prius batteries is quoting a much higher cost and much lower kwh/kg value than lg or jci-saft. And these two Vehicle battery producers are definitely behind in kwh/kg from the assembled big li from smaller comercial batteries of tesla. Since Pansonic builds some of those cells in tesla's batteries I can't believe there is any technical reason they are far behind.

 

It sounds like Toyota is developing a lighter version of its Hybrid Synergy Drive system so it could work on a vehicle as small as the Yaris (Vitz). Don't be surprised that we see it available on the next-generation Yaris for the USA market in early 2012 as a 2013 model.

 

Hybrid Yaris. Where will they put the HV battery pack? Junk the spare wheel perhaps?

 

It's not just California. Several states follow that warranty principal. I'll bet the handfull of folks who've had their packs die at 125,000 miles don't think a 150K warrany is crazy.



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