Toyota believes that electric-only vehicles will only suitable for short journeys in city and suburb

Re: Toyota believes that electric-only vehicles will only suitable for short journeys in city and su

interesting the article states that 80% of trips are under 25 km. that is barely 15 miles. so the ONLY real drawbacks to EV's is the same drawback, gasoline cars had...no where to refuel. they seemed to manage ok. we simply need to put in charging stations.

i think we need to get away from the this "all supercharge" station mentality. there are several instances where slower 220 volt charging would do fine. restaurants, shopping centers, etc. many of these can subsidize line power with solar, etc.

the only *real* drawback we have is our reluctance to move into the EV arena. i personally think that Nissan delivering a large volume of Leafs that work well will be the kick in the we as a country need to get the funding behind the infrastructure to where even a 40 or 50 mile EV would flourish

 

Re: Toyota believes that electric-only vehicles will only suitable for short journeys in city and su

That may be the figure for Japan or EU, probably not American commute.

 

Re: Toyota believes that electric-only vehicles will only suitable for short journeys in city and su

true true. the article is based in the UK, so maybe that is their stats. but ours would not be significantly different. its "per trip" meaning a 30 mile RT commute which is actually above average for the US (average is like ~ 26 or so).

now, in certain areas the commute is much longer like DC where more than 90% commute from outside the metro area. there commutes average something like 35 miles ONE WAY.

in Olympia, the state capital, its got a slightly higher than average "rural" commuter ratio, but its only like 20% or so. but even with that rate, the average one way commute for Olympia is still like 17 miles so not a whole lot different.

i had a link to the local study that was done here, but it was from the local paper done in 2007 or 2008 i think but the link seems to have expired. it also posted national stats as well... bummer.

 

Re: Toyota believes that electric-only vehicles will only suitable for short journeys in city and su

Ok, so ... 100 years ago the model T was only suitable for short journeys. Lo & behold ... things got better and now everyone know that. But since we're forward thinkers, lets think forward. What do they say the Greek word Prius means?

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Re: Toyota believes that electric-only vehicles will only suitable for short journeys in city and su

I don't see this as a big obstacle. It should be easy for gas stations to add recharging bays, as long as they aren't close to gas pumps.

The bigger problem is overcoming the oil lobby. It's a special interest government, and there are huge obstacles replacing gasoline.

 

Re: Toyota believes that electric-only vehicles will only suitable for short journeys in city and su

The key is battery technology. I feel confident that improvement will come, but how soon? Until I can drive 800 miles a day I'm going to have to stick with a gas-electric hybrid over an EV. But one of each would work.

 

Re: Toyota believes that electric-only vehicles will only suitable for short journeys in city and su

Once more, the drawback of the EV is stated. And I agree with Toyota assessment.
Well, my family of 3 needs about two times a month to do a 200km trip, sometimes (1 per 2 month basis) a 350km trip. This gives something like 20-25 trips yearly, all of those much above EV range. Oh yes, I could stop for "refilling", but can you imagine doing that with a child on board, or with a tight schedule? I am an environment fan, and do whatever I can to avoid losses, but I cannot act in a ridiculous way.
Would a EV fit for me a 100% service? No, the big role would be better suited with a PHV. My wife does about 40km a day home-job-home, which in itself is above a Plug-in Prius EV range, but fuel does the remaining part. As for weekend trips, it is ready for action. And many time using electricity during the week, in a sustainable mode. All in the same car, with no inconvenience in assuming only one family car using.

 

Re: Toyota believes that electric-only vehicles will only suitable for short journeys in city and su

telmo; cant argue with your specific needs, but i can say that if i was a one car household, the Leaf would not even be on the table.

 

Re: Toyota believes that electric-only vehicles will only suitable for short journeys in city and su

Well, I was reading about a year ago about lithium batteries becoming much faster to charge. Generally a battery terminal just takes the electrons and throws them at the cells all willy-nilly and hope that they stick. Some do, most dont. This means it takes a long time (3-4 hours) to charge your small laptop battery from 5% to 100%. Now what they did was make little "grooves" in the cell connectors. So now the electrons are sorted/tunneled (not tunneled in the electron-tunneling sense of the word though) and they "stick" more often than not turning that same charging time down to minutes (less than 10). This requires no modification at all to the battery, and minimal modification to the manfacturing process, so it is forseeable in the next couple years to be in commercial devices.

Applying this to a EV, means we can "refuel" in 10 minutes or so with a high current quick charge station. I think 10 minutes is bearable.

 

Re: Toyota believes that electric-only vehicles will only suitable for short journeys in city and su

I can't say if Toyota is right in terms of the market at large.
I can say they will be loosing this customer's business if (and it looks like this will be the case) their competitors come out with a pure EV and they don't have one.

 

Re: Toyota believes that electric-only vehicles will only suitable for short journeys in city and su

That "grooving" does not solve the range problem, only everyone could live more with it, reducing stopping times.. And, IMO makes an additional requirement for cooling devices protecting cells during quick-charge mode...higher the current -> raising the temperature...

Maybe this improvement will be totally available in a mean time...

 

Re: Toyota believes that electric-only vehicles will only suitable for short journeys in city and su

not going to happen. there is no doubt in my mind that Toyota is poised to move VERY rapidly should the Leaf find and sustain a significant niche.

there is no doubt in my mind, Toyota has been testing EV designs for years

 

Re: Toyota believes that electric-only vehicles will only suitable for short journeys in city and su

I agree. But with second generation of mass EV's maybe there will be a larger pack available as an upgrade.

Or a hydrogen/lithium hybrid! (dreams )

 

Re: Toyota believes that electric-only vehicles will only suitable for short journeys in city and su

Quite the contrary, most manufacturers do not have HV for these 13year Prius sales, and have been in a rough position to argue now. For my point of view, many manufacturers have been overhelmed technically.
I have heard that, as simple as it can be, Toyota will lauch a small EV, just for its right range: town, not requiring large batteries, and assuming the 2nd car image, less expensive and adequate to park/use.

 

Re: Toyota believes that electric-only vehicles will only suitable for short journeys in city and su

Toyota will bash EV's as long as they don't have one, and especially when EV's start encroaching on Prius territory (as the Leaf/Volt are).

Meanwhile, you can guess what their R&D dept is working on, and whenever they finally make one, they will completely reverse their position.

 

Re: Toyota believes that electric-only vehicles will only suitable for short journeys in city and su

Sadly, it was about 5 years ago that GM was saying that GM believes hybrids "will only be suitable" for pr stunts ... greenwashing etc. I hope the tide hasn't turned. After all, it was GM pushing forward with early EV & hybrids that made Toyota get with the program ... not wanting to get left in the dust. I see dust on the horizon. The fire has been lit under their feet.

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Re: Toyota believes that electric-only vehicles will only suitable for short journeys in city and su

I don't see how you can say that at least some of their competitors aren't beating them with a pure EV.
Nissan's Leaf has been announced, marketed and is getting a handle on which markets will have the most interest.
I don't see Toyota coming out with an EV by this December? I wish it were the case, would love to see it, but I don't see them moving THAT fast.

 

Re: Toyota believes that electric-only vehicles will only suitable for short journeys in city and su

The problem I believe that Toyota sees is that EVs will be specific niche vehicles. They'll be the anti-Camaro's. Both serve niches for a specialized clientele. However they aren't ( yet ) ready for Prime Time mass marketing.


Because of

• the limited availability of recharging ( presently ), and
• the fact that whole segments of the population can't use the best feature ( using no liquid fuel ) since this segment lacks complete access to plugin capabilities, and
• the range limitations...

IMO the EVs can't grow beyond a certain limited sector of the market. As I see it Toyota is a mass marketer to the entire population. It's always chosen this option as opposed to risk being marginalized. Mazda, Subaru, BMW and to a lesser extent here VW all are marginalized niche sellers.

It's a difficult choice. The Prius now can be sold to every single buyer in the world, nothing special is needed to operate it most efficiently. Not so with the Prius PHV, Volt, Leaf.

 

Re: Toyota believes that electric-only vehicles will only suitable for short journeys in city and su

I can foresee in the not too distant future where city drivers will be required to use BEVs of some sort as ICEs and Gas/Electric hybrids are banned from large city centers. Then at that time vehicles like the Aptera and the Leaf and other such specialized vehicles might be the only choices.

If at some time in this century a continent-wide recharging system is developed and put into place replacing liquid fueling stations then the majority of the fleet might switch over to BEVs. But until then the vehicles will be of limited acceptance.

It's been hard enough to get the population to see the benefits of the Prius, some still think it was forged in the depths of Hades by daemons with the sole intent to change our normal 'way of life'. BEVs?