Today's WSJ - Toyota says hybrids don't make sense!

All depends upon the standpoint... LOL, you brought this to light just as I got into a "tussle" with an individual on the same subject matter...


http://priuschat.com/forums/so-this-jerk-o...ys-vt10293.html

 

Perhaps the Japanese tradition is a new car every 2 years?...

 

The WSJ is "correct" hybrids do not make sense, if you only think short-term. I try to model what I teach - long-term thinking and minimal emissions. Front passengers are always amazed at the MFD feedback on fuel economy. I've decreased my dependence on oil and look forward to being able to plug-in to further decrease my use of oil.

Okay WSJ, want to double your profit?! Then double your efficiency - in a hybrid and throughout the rest of your life.

 

My prius is the fourth car that I've owned. The first car was a Chevy Celebrity station wagon that I got from my mother when I was in college. I replaced it at 198,000 miles with a Ford Explorer. I subsequently replaced the Ford explorer 12 years later at 196,000 miles and bought my Prius. In between all that, I got married and immediately replaced my wife's crappy LeBaron with a Chevy Malibu. It currently has 112,000 miles on it after 7 years and I intend to keep it another 3 years or so until it has at least 180,000 miles on it.

I intend to keep my Prius as long as I've kept my other cars. I also expect gas prices to continue to rise.

Over the lifetime of my prius, I will most certainly at least break even, and I expect to come out well ahead.

 

I have no doubt that the Prius is worth the extra money. Gas is currently $2.55 in New York. I drive about 25,000 miles per year, which means I burn about 500 gallons of gas at 50 miles per gallon, for an annual gas cost of $1, 275. If I drove a camry, which is similar in interior size and comfort, I would burn about 1,000 gallons at 25 miles per gallon, for a cost of $2,550. So I am already saving $1,275 per year. I intend to keep the Prius at least 10 years, for a saving of $12,750 dollars in fuel costs. Now I fully expect gas prices to rise over 10 years, perhaps to $5.00 per gallon or more. In that case, I will save much more than $12,750 I am not great at math, but even I can figure out the the Prius makes economic sense.

 

Even though crunching the numbers yielded that I should at least break even in recouping the extra cost for the hybrid technology over the lifetime of the car, I am with Evan on this one. Saving money is not the point of this car - reducing emissions, saving gas, and reducing our dependence on oil is, along with all of the environmental benefits that this entails. Any financial advantage I consider to be a fortuitous side effect.

- Bill

 

Personally, I think a car's sole function is to transform energy into motion. The more effeciently a car does that, the better the car.

 

Let's say the car holds up nicely until the battery fails, somewhere after 150,000 miles. Unless a new battery is under $500 by that time, I may bail for a new Prius. The current $6,000 will be hard to justify on an 8-or-more-year-old car...

 

As a Brit working and living here in the US, I thought I might jump in with a difference in culture, indicated indirectly here.

In the US, people tend to keep their cars much longer, to the point they fall apart. In the UK, company cars are rotated every 2 to 3 years. For private owners, this is often the case as well. In Japan, if it has a scratch on it, time to replace it. Very much the consumer society.

This may go a little way to explain the success of the Prius in the US compared to other countries. Holding onto the car for more than 3 years will pay back the initial premium for purchasing a hybrid.

Of course, GM and Ford are helping the sales of Prius by making the pay back on gas savings attractive. SUVs which struggle to get 10 MPG creates huge savings in gas compared to a Prius 48 MPG. Compare that to normal vehicles sold in other countries that achieve 30 MPG, the math is not so attractive.

It is clear our nation is reliant upon big foreign oil. More and more of our imports come from overseas." G.W. Bush --Beaverton, Ore., Sep. 25, 2000

 

I think the Prius is a step in the direction that the planet needs to survive, if pres. GW Bush doesn't think the Kyoto Treaty is important enough to bring the US into, then maybe we as a people can do our own part to reduce emissions and green house gasses.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(kirbinster\";p=\"107048)</div>

So the USA, instead of "killing it's economy" is killing it's youth. 1758 so far. And Iraqi dead number between 20,000 and 100,000. And that remarkable "coalition of the willing"? About 190.

But if you think about it, this is an interesting argument by kirbinster. Justify American lack of leadership by pointing to the worlds lack of leadership.

There was a time when the world could look to the USA for leadership for things like this. Instead, THEY will come up with the solutions --like the Prius -- and leave the USA fighting to protect oil fields and profit margins.

 

For me, Prius represents the best balance between gas mileage, performance, room, luxury, and emissions. Period. Discussions about whether it is worth it to supposedly pay a few extra thousand dollars for this balance mean nothing to me. Toyota is expected to produce 500,000 hybrids next year. The President of Toyota should be fired for his stupid comments, unless they were taken out of context. Given the WSJ's bias, that's entirely possible. Concede away, put put the whole issue in perspective.

Besides, over time, it is reasonable to conclude that the differential will decrease as production increases and efficiency of production increases.

I don't mind spending a few extra bucks for the planet.

 

This reminds me of when Bill Gates said that computers would never need more than 640K of RAM.

Innovation always has its naysayers. Hearing it from the president of the company doing the innovation is beyond bizarre and seems to be at complete odds with their attempts to market and sell the Prius.

IMHO, alot of mfrs. and buyers are going to start jumping on the bandwagon (NYC taxis for example). * picture a huge, slowly rolling snowball * We may even start to see some government mandates in countries that are serious about pollution reduction concerning the use of hybrids - I wouldn't be surprised.