Tires for better Highway control

ARiddle · Apr 1, 2006

I have about 100 miles on my new 2006 Prius. Although I have been on the california 405 for brief periods, today was the first time I really got out there on the 405 and 5 with the big trucks at 65+.

I have to say that the "squirrely" behavior of the Prius once I topped 65 was very discomforting.

I have already ordered a BT Brace and I am looking for other improvements which will improve stability in the diamond lane.

Tires are next on my list and I have extensively read the threads here on them. As I don't drive on snow and only seasonally in rain. Which would you think would give me the most improved stability at 65+ on grooved california highway with the least reduction in mileage.

I went to costco tonight and got some quotes on

Michelin Energy MXV4 Plus 206/60 R15
Michelin Energy MXV4 Plus 185/65 R15
Michelin X Radial DT 185/65 R15

Costco doesnt have the Hydro Edge Available Now

I am partial to Michelins but might consider going to another store and brand if something else is much better.

Your comments and experiences please...

V8Cobrakid · Apr 1, 2006

the bt brace just might do it for you.. well.. it will help a lot.

my recomendations is the Goodyear Comforthreads. they are a little pricy but give an awesome ride with little mpg sacrafice.. if any. They ride smooth ( dirt, snow, asphault, etc.) and they come with an 80k mile warranty.

i like them much more than the tires on my parents 400h.

jbarnhart · Apr 1, 2006

I've had Michelin tires on my other cars, but I went with the Comfortreds on the Prius and I'm glad I did. One of the annoying factors for me was the road noise of the Integrity tires. The Comfortreds are noticably quieter and smoother riding than the stock tires.

In my area Walmart sells the Comfortreds for the lowest price. Other stores, like my favorite Wheel Works, will often price-match Walmart. That's how I got 'em for under $400 mounted and with road-hazard warranty.

ARiddle · Apr 1, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jbarnhart @ Apr 1 2006, 12:08 AM) [snapback]233352[/snapback]</div>

I've had Michelin tires on my other cars, but I went with the Comfortreds on the Prius and I'm glad I did. One of the annoying factors for me was the road noise of the Integrity tires. The Comfortreds are noticably quieter and smoother riding than the stock tires.

In my area Walmart sells the Comfortreds for the lowest price. Other stores, like my favorite Wheel Works, will often price-match Walmart. That's how I got 'em for under $400 mounted and with road-hazard warranty.
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Thanks I will consider the comforttreads - however road noise at high speeds is much less important to me than steering stability and tracking at 70. I'd like to hear from someone who drives the prius up and down the 405 in the grooved diamond lane (or something similar) and how their new tires changed the dynamics.

I bought this car principally for diamond lane travel, and unless I can improve its handling significantly, I will sell it and get a Honda Civic Hybrid 06. 3 Hours of anxiety a day is just not worth it.

jbarnhart · Apr 1, 2006

Before you sell your car, you might search the forum here for people who have conquered similar problems. See the last post in this thread, for example: http://priuschat.com/index.php?showtopic=17397. I use Google advanced search and restrict it to "priuschat.com" to search the forum.

I put the Comfortreds on my car because the Integrity tires are known to be unsafe in wet weather, which we get our share of here in No. California. We also have grooved pavement. The sidewall compliance of the Comfortreds helps both noise and handling issues on grooved pavement.

If I were in your position, I would buy the tires from someplace that had more than one brand of tire for my car. If the Michelin's don't help your handling, then Costco can't help you switch to another tire which might be better.

ARiddle · Apr 1, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jbarnhart @ Apr 1 2006, 01:07 PM) [snapback]233469[/snapback]</div>

Before you sell your car, you might search the forum here for people who have conquered similar problems. See the last post in this thread, for example: http://priuschat.com/index.php?showtopic=17397. I use Google advanced search and restrict it to "priuschat.com" to search the forum.

I put the Comfortreds on my car because the Integrity tires are known to be unsafe in wet weather, which we get our share of here in No. California. We also have grooved pavement. The sidewall compliance of the Comfortreds helps both noise and handling issues on grooved pavement.

If I were in your position, I would buy the tires from someplace that had more than one brand of tire for my car. If the Michelin's don't help your handling, then Costco can't help you switch to another tire which might be better.
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Thanks, it seems that this link seems to be about someone with alignment problems - did I miss something here?

I agree with you about the costco thing, they have limited selections and can't switch you out - but at $400 at americas tire/discount tire the Assurance comforttreads are still cheaper than the michelin x's.

I stopped by by the dealer today - and they had a tech go for a ride with me - he was able to feel the tire wander and mentioned it to the manager. I was surprised however that the car seemed to be behaving a bit better when he was riding with me. I had to drive someone 10 miles down the freeway and drove back and noticed again that the car behaves much worse with just me than with two adults in the front.

I am beginning to thing the best performance enhancing accessory might be a fifty pound bag of sand on the floor in the passanger side.

hobbit · Apr 1, 2006

Squirreliness probably comes mostly from factors other than the
tires. Chassis stiffness [fixable with a BT plate], wheel alignment
[fixable with, well, an alignment], possibly some amount of just
getting used to the steering feel. Oh, and whatever you get,
pump them suckers up to the sidewall max. That helps too.
.
_H*

jbarnhart · Apr 1, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ARiddle @ Apr 1 2006, 02:56 PM) [snapback]233505[/snapback]</div>

Thanks, it seems that this link seems to be about someone with alignment problems - did I miss something here?[/b]
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(KTPhil @ Mar 20 2006, 01:04 PM) [snapback]227439[/snapback]</div>

Caster and camber can affect the car differently under braking than accelerating or cruising.

Have the dealer perform a 4 wheel alignment check (caster, camber, toe), and give you a printout of the results. You are entitled to this on a new Prius if you have handling or braking issues.

If they adjust front toe, ask for an adjustment toward "more toe-in" rather than zero. Zero is allowed in the spec, but the car can wander on the freeway without enough toe-in.
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I do not know. What do you think?

ARiddle · Apr 1, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jbarnhart @ Apr 1 2006, 03:28 PM) [snapback]233518[/snapback]</div>

I do not know. What do you think?
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OK, I think asking the dealer for an alignment check is a very good idea. The dealer seems to be pretty proactive about my concerns - so I will explore that. I mentioned the BT plate to the Toyota corporate guy responsible for accessories and addons - he's going to check this site and investigate the BT Plate to see if its something they could sell.

I bought the Goodyear Assurance Comforttreads today and they inflated to the spec on the car and they do greatly improve the tendency of the car to grab track on the the grooved 405 pavement - so at least there is some improvement. I'll have to play with pressures as has been suggested. The Comforttreads have a thrity day trial - so I cant really go wrong with these.

There is still a tendency of the car to roll and change direction in response to draft from other vehicles and windshifts around structures and still a little lack of precision in the steering (which could be a digital thing).

I am wondering if the Michelin Energy MXV4 Plus Tires would do any better handlingwise than the Comforttreads - they are about $20 bucks a tire more expense and 2 pounds heavier - the Comforttreads are the same weight as the Integrity.

jbarnhart · Apr 1, 2006

You've already ordered the BT plate, so it should show up in a few days. Slap it on (be sure to torque it correctly) and take it for a drive. Get the alignment checked and ask for the toe-in for better highway manners. If it still isn't up to expectations, see if you can try the other tires for a day or two. I think the Comfortreds will be as good or better than the Michelins in this respect, but if the setup isn't doing it for you, it's time to investigate last ditch options.

artie · Apr 2, 2006

i have 47,000 miles on my '04, the original tires, integritys, were just fine in rain here in san diego, which we had lots and lots of last winter. absolutely no trouble.
but boy the car is/was squirrely, totally unforgiveable, tho i do forgive, because everthing else is so good.
put on the comfortreds about 800 miles ago, much smoother, quieter BUT just as squirrely, if not a bit more so, imho, and this was after trading in the falken tires that were highly recommended at consumer reports and were also squirrely, and noisy and hard riding.
the goodyears at discount tires were 81 dollars each.
lots of luck with your braces, and crutches and whatevers.

my strangest observation is that if i take my hands off the steering wheel, the car tracks smoothly and straight, for a long long time. the "lighter" i handle the steering wheel, the less the problem.
but nonetheless, this is inexcuseable performance. i think it's the electronic power steering, but then again, i know next to nothing.

i should add that my mpg took a very slight hit with the comfortreds, maybe 2 mpg. tho i'm not too sure, since i also had the reprogramming done which is alleged to solve the sudden engine stopping while driving and is also alleged to reduce mileage, i think.

ARiddle · Apr 2, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(artie @ Apr 1 2006, 11:42 PM) [snapback]233710[/snapback]</div>

i have 47,000 miles on my '04, the original tires, integritys, were just fine in rain here in san diego, which we had lots and lots of last winter. absolutely no trouble.
but boy the car is/was squirrely, totally unforgiveable, tho i do forgive, because everthing else is so good.
put on the comfortreds about 800 miles ago, much smoother, quieter BUT just as squirrely, if not a bit more so, imho, and this was after trading in the falken tires that were highly recommended at consumer reports and were also squirrely, and noisy and hard riding.
the goodyears at discount tires were 81 dollars each.
lots of luck with your braces, and crutches and whatevers.

my strangest observation is that if i take my hands off the steering wheel, the car tracks smoothly and straight, for a long long time. the "lighter" i handle the steering wheel, the less the problem.
but nonetheless, this is inexcuseable performance. i think it's the electronic power steering, but then again, i know next to nothing.

i should add that my mpg took a very slight hit with the comfortreds, maybe 2 mpg. tho i'm not too sure, since i also had the reprogramming done which is alleged to solve the sudden engine stopping while driving and is also alleged to reduce mileage, i think.
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Today I did a number of trips on the OC 405 between El Toro and Culver. This area has a lot of new concrete with that special grooving - especially on the right and transition lanes. The goodyear assurance comfortred tires do better on this than the GYI's did, but there is still a fair amount of grove jumping (requiring steering correction) and a lack of sense of zero position that I am used to. I increased inflation from the 35/33 spec to 39/37 and the handling improved the tracking slightly - but I also notice that the handling is better with 2 or 4 people in the car than when I am alone. I waiting for my BT Plate but I am looking at other tire options.

When looking at the reviews on the comfortreds on other tire sites, customers rave about its quiet comfortable ride but still mention a disquieting wander at highway speeds that they have gotten used to.

I am wondering as to whether I am going to swap for some Michelin X's from costco, or the Assurance TripleTreds.

I had considered the Michelin MVX4 Pluses but I am a little put off by the comparitively bad consumer reviews of this tire.

Any suggestions as to what to try next?

200Volts · Apr 3, 2006

See my article in the Knowledge base on Highway Stability for my 2 cents. This also has a review of my Bridgestone RE950 tires.

My 04 now has 78k miles, the first 40k with the Integrities.
The RE950 are the best rain tire I can imagine, it's almost impossible to engage the anti lock brakes, even in the rain.
However, they only help a little on grooved pavement (I 580 in Livermore and 205 in Tracy). Plus the RE950 started to make a humming noise at highway speeds after 30k. They handle fantastic on the dry also. AND, they also ride VERY stiff-even at 34 psi.
My next tires will be MXV4+. I've had these on other cars. Dead quiet, track well, consider LRR, able to run at 42 psi, but are only average for handling (Integrities are the worst tire I can imagine for handling).
Yeah the MXV4+ cost more(even at Costco), but they last.

ARiddle · Apr 3, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(200Volts @ Apr 3 2006, 04:02 PM) [snapback]234373[/snapback]</div>

See my article in the Knowledge base on Highway Stability for my 2 cents. This also has a review of my Bridgestone RE950 tires.

My 04 now has 78k miles, the first 40k with the Integrities.
The RE950 are the best rain tire I can imagine, it's almost impossible to engage the anti lock brakes, even in the rain.
However, they only help a little on grooved pavement (I 580 in Livermore and 205 in Tracy). Plus the RE950 started to make a humming noise at highway speeds after 30k. They handle fantastic on the dry also. AND, they also ride VERY stiff-even at 34 psi.
My next tires will be MXV4+. I've had these on other cars. Dead quiet, track well, consider LRR, able to run at 42 psi, but are only average for handling (Integrities are the worst tire I can imagine for handling).
Yeah the MXV4+ cost more(even at Costco), but they last.
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I had considered the MXv4+ but the User's on the Tire Sites really dump on this Tire for some unexplained reason - doesn't come with a money back guarantee like the HydroEdge (also orderable from costco). I wonder how the Prius MXV4+ users like their tires.

My other concern with the HydroEdges is that some buyers complain about it being really noisy - but at least I can return them if I don't like them - however the ComfordTred's I already have are growing on me - defintely better at higher inflation than factory.

artie · Apr 3, 2006

My other concern with the HydroEdges is that some buyers complain about it being really noisy - but at least I can return them if I don't like them - however the ComfordTred's I already have are growing on me - defintely better at higher inflation than factory.
[/quote]

my comfortreds are growing on me too.

looks really funny (couldn't resist)

but seriously, i do like them enuf to stop with the tire business and worries...i was going to buy a set of TC takeoffs, but, i'm done.

i think.

ARiddle · Apr 3, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(200Volts @ Apr 3 2006, 04:02 PM) [snapback]234373[/snapback]</div>

See my article in the Knowledge base on Highway Stability for my 2 cents. This also has a review of my Bridgestone RE950 tires.

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I looked for this but couldn't find it in the Knowledge Base Discusssion. Is it in some other place?

ckbarnard · Apr 3, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jbarnhart @ Apr 1 2006, 02:07 PM) [snapback]233469[/snapback]</div>

I use Google advanced search and restrict it to "priuschat.com" to search the forum.
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Thank you, jbarnhart, for a great idea of how to search. I tried it, and it works great!

ARiddle · Apr 3, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ckbarnard @ Apr 3 2006, 05:40 PM) [snapback]234416[/snapback]</div>

Thank you, jbarnhart, for a great idea of how to search. I tried it, and it works great!
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I found it using the site bound google approach - however maybe we can get this put back in the current Knowledge Base as a sticky.

cdavid · Apr 3, 2006

I wouldn't count on the BT brace necessarily solving the problem of the pronounced buffeting that occurs at highway speeds with a big truck going passing you. I put my brace on last weekend (didn't have a torque wrench, although) and today there was a stiff cross wind, and the car was twitchy on the steering. A Semi passed by, and the steering wheel really jerked.

Many other posters noted the brace solved this problem, but not for me. I will take it in to check the torque, but I put in on very tight.

ARiddle · Apr 4, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(cdavid @ Apr 3 2006, 06:11 PM) [snapback]234430[/snapback]</div>

I wouldn't count on the BT brace necessarily solving the problem of the pronounced buffeting that occurs at highway speeds with a big truck going passing you. I put my brace on last weekend (didn't have a torque wrench, although) and today there was a stiff cross wind, and the car was twitchy on the steering. A Semi passed by, and the steering wheel really jerked.

Many other posters noted the brace solved this problem, but not for me. I will take it in to check the torque, but I put in on very tight.
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Frankly, this doesn't surprise me much. Truck wakes at high speeds deliver quite a punch, even hits my Yukon XL around. I would expect the stiffening plate only to dampen vibrations and moderately improve stability at best - but then I haven't got it yet. Fortunately there are not as many big trucks on the 405 and harbor fwy as on the 5, and in the rush hour they aren't moving very fast. When I venture into truck territory I'll take the Big Rig.

Tires for better Highway control

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