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Tire dilemma

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Fuel Economy' started by Maeve, Aug 5, 2023.

  1. Maeve

    Maeve Junior Member

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    I have a 2014 Prius Two with just under 68K miles. I'm replacing my tires for the second time. It came with Ecopia EP422s and I replaced those with EP422+ in 2018. I'm very happy with the gas mileage I get with them, but not at all pleased by the fact that they wear down so quickly.

    After a little adventure with some Ecopias from Costco, in which three turned out to be defective, Costco swapped in a set of Bridgestone Weatherpeaks on the theory that they're the replacement for the Ecopias, which are supposedly being discontinued (though two calls to Bridgestone/Firestone swear they're not doing any such thing), and hopefully would be similar in terms of fuel efficiency. I've had them for a week and the mileage is nothing like the Ecopias. Bridgestone confirms that these are not LRR tires.

    I'm reluctant to go back to the Ecopias, both because of the short life and the fact that this last batch were defective, but I don't want to tank my mileage, either.

    I've searched this forum to see if anyone has any experience with the Weatherpeaks, but I'm coming up empty. I'm also considering switching to Michelin X-Tour, which is a LRR tire, but I see some folks here weren't happy with those tires, and others seem to be thrilled with their Defender T+H line, which surprised me, since I don't see those listed as LRR tires.

    Everything I've found is at least a year or two old. I'm also reading that new tires may improve after some time, and am not quite sure what to make of that. I also know that some of this can be rather individual.

    I'm also limited to options available at Costco.

    As you can tell, I'm not a car expert of any sort, even amateur, so I really could use some help sorting out what might make the most sense at this point.

    Thanks!
     
    #1 Maeve, Aug 5, 2023
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2023
  2. PriusII&C

    PriusII&C Active Member

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    The EP422+ tires on my Prius lasted over 73k miles when they were replaced a few montha ago. Actually there still was some tread life left when replaced.

    The new tires are Defender T+H. There is a 10%+ MPG drop, although it is unknown to me how much of that drop is due to the nature of new tires.
     
    #2 PriusII&C, Aug 6, 2023
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2023
  3. jdenenberg

    jdenenberg EE Professor

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    There are Nokian WRg4 tires that are guaranteed to go 60k miles, are LRR, and are All-Weather tires. They are available as 195/65HR15 and will fit most Prii.

    JeffD
     
  4. ColoradoCrow

    ColoradoCrow Active Member

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    I also run Ecopia 422+ on both my 2008 Prius I got the best mileage by rotating them every 3,000 miles..LRR is the only way to go. Bridgestone has made these tires for quite some time..Maybe Costco is just going to stop carrying them?
     
  5. Maeve

    Maeve Junior Member

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    I'd love to know how you got that many miles on these tires. My first set lasted about 32K and the second 35K, which isn't even close.

    So you're saying that's what you replaced the Ecopias with? If so, how long have you had them?
     
  6. Maeve

    Maeve Junior Member

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    Thanks, but they're not available at Costco, and since I originally replaced my tires there a few weeks ago, I'm stuck with them.
     
  7. Maeve

    Maeve Junior Member

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    I always rotate my tires when they're due. My Costco doesn't have the 422+ in the right size in stock, and says that Bridgestone has discontinued them for trucks and SUVs. I think they're confused and think that ALL of them are being discontinued, but I've spoken to multiple people at Bridgestone who've told me they see no signs of the 422+ being discontinued.

    Any thoughts on either of the Michelins I mentioned? I agree re: LRR, but I'm not sure if the Defender T+H in particular qualifies or not.
     
  8. PriusII&C

    PriusII&C Active Member

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    I don't think the Defender T+H is LRR. I have had them for 4+ months and about 4,000 miles. My MPG dropped from lower 50's to middle 40's.
     
  9. Maeve

    Maeve Junior Member

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    I just got off the phone with Michelin. They told me the X-Tour and the Defender T+H are exactly the same tire (which seems weird to me--if that's the case, why does Costco sell both?). They also said the fuel efficiency of both is a 5/10, which doesn't sound super promising to me. But I'm also not sure I believe them, since Costco's page says the X-Tour is EV compatible and LRR, but doesn't say any such thing about the Defender.
     
  10. Grit

    Grit Senior Member

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    Found the issue.
     
  11. Maeve

    Maeve Junior Member

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    Maybe, but maybe not. As I said, Bridgestone confirms for me that the Weatherpeak is not a LRR tire, so there is no reason to expect that it will be significantly better once it’s worn in.

    At this point, I’m. also concerned about Weatherpeak reviews saying that they’ve only lasted about 20K miles, which is even worse than the Ecopias.
     
  12. Grit

    Grit Senior Member

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    Tread thickness of new tires should yield similar mpgs result of broken in tire treads, gotcha.
     
  13. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

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    Michelin refers to a lot of their tires as “Total Performance” now, including the Defenders which means, well who knows. I can think of another phrase that begins with “Total…”.

    I do know when I got replacement Michelin Primacy MXM4 all-seasons (in our stock 17” size), there was a terrific mpg hit (versus the original Michelin Pilot hx MXM4). Michelin calls both of these “Green X”, their name for tires with low rolling resistance. :rolleyes:
     
    #13 Mendel Leisk, Aug 8, 2023
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2023
  14. Maeve

    Maeve Junior Member

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    I never said that. I said we don't know. A 20% drop seems like a significant one to overcome.

    Either way, there's no need to be rude.
     
  15. Maeve

    Maeve Junior Member

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    Did it ever get back to the original MPG?

    What's your feeling on the Michelin T+H vs. the Weatherpeak? Bridgestone isn't making me feel great re: the lifespan of their tires, even though the Weatherpeaks are supposed to be better.
     
  16. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

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    It’s gotten “closer”, but I sense some of that is my adaptation, trying harder.

    My impression: there’s not a lot of reality to some of these LRR claims. With the possible exception of Michelin Energy Saver line, which seems virtually discontinued. And wasn’t an option in our 17” size.

    I’d never heard of the WeatherPeaks. I gather it’s one of those “all-weather”, or “4-season” tires, maybe has the winter tire mountain/snowflake symbol? Skimmed this, comparison with CrossClimate:

    https://tiredriver.com/michelin-crossclimate-2-vs-bridgestone-weatherpeak/?expand_article=1

    The reviewers lists pros and cons for both, and they don’t seem too far apart.
     
    #16 Mendel Leisk, Aug 8, 2023
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2023
  17. Maeve

    Maeve Junior Member

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    Thanks. Yes, the Weatherpeak is new--I think it came out last year. It does have the 3 Peak Mountain Snowflake symbol. Its newness is part of what makes me a little hesitant about it, especially now that I'm seeing some folks got even less wear out of it than I've managed from two sets of Ecopias.
     
    Mendel Leisk likes this.
  18. jdenenberg

    jdenenberg EE Professor

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    New tire apparent MPG loss (not real loss) is due to a thicker tread and fewer revolutions per mile (a change in odometer calibration). You can correct for the change in calibration of your odometer by normalizing by the percentage change in tire diameter as the tread wears. There is also a small difference between the revolutions/mile of different tire brands/models at the same size rating that also causes apparent MPG differences.

    Don't confuse this apparent MPG difference with the real loss in MPG when you install non-LRR tires.

    There is currently a great Michelin LRR tire, the CrossClimate2, but it does not come in all sizes.

    JeffD
     
  19. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

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    "rude" is a matter of perspective and interpretation.

    If you are quick to take offense from innocent remarks, you
    won't be very happy in ANY social media forum.
     
  20. Maeve

    Maeve Junior Member

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    This is EXACTLY what I'm trying to determine--how much of this issue is the new tire, and how much of it will never improve because it's not a LRR tire. And whether the Michelins are likely to be any better than the Weatherpeak in this regard.

    Costco doesn't have it for my car, alas.