Thinking of going veggie, need some advice??

You'll need to be a careful to make sure you get all of the nutrients you need since people are designed to eat at least some meat.

You'll need to decide if you're going to eat fish or go strictly with fruits and vegetables.

You'll need to decide if you'll eat eggs, cheese and milk. Do you think cows are mistreated by being milked? Some egg producing chickens live in horrible conditions. Some are "free range". You can go to stores and buy free range eggs.

It is possible to get hormone-free, free range chickens, pork, beef etc. Grass fed beef too.

Be prepared to pay more for the free range, organic route. That would include pesticide free fruits and vegetables.

If you have the land for it, you could consider a victory garden. Check to see if your city will allow you to keep one or two chickens as "pets"....that happen to lay eggs. Get a fishing license if you have the time to fish and the courage to clean.

I'd also look in to where you are getting your generalized information about "all" slaughterhouses and the lack of government regulations. Research facilities do not belong in this decision; they have nothing to do with food production.

If you're getting all of your information from PETA and like groups, that's a red flag.

 

I urge you to read "The Omnivore's Dilemma" by Michael Pollan. There is great information in there about our food systems and the truth behind CAFOs, industrial agriculture, free-range, veganism etc. He even tried our vegetarianism durring the writing of the book. Here is a link to a REAL farm the is doing it right and profiting while keeping everything ecologically friendly and healthy. Polyface.inc http://www.polyfacefarms.com/

 

If one were to ask me for advice on becoming a vegetarian.. my advise would be to quit reading PETA propaganda and be thankful for your life and the fact that you even get to CHOOSE what you eat.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(desynch @ Apr 8 2007, 02:08 PM) [snapback]419923[/snapback]</div>

And simply ignore the social, economic, health and ethical effects of your diet? No, I think it is better to be educated on the subject and try to do your best to make the right choices. Ignorance and apathy is not good for us, it is great for those in power though.

 

Well, I am vegetarian.

I think you should take it step by step. If you are used to eating lot of meat, why not start eating just white meat for a while. When you are comfortable with it, you can switch to just fish. Later, you can stop eating fish as well. If you know how to cook properly, vegetarian meals are very tasty. All my carnivore friends love to eat my food.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jesart @ Apr 8 2007, 02:06 PM) [snapback]419865[/snapback]</div>

Yes, probably quite a few. A couple of points: I fully agree with you about the cruelty to animals in food production. In my younger days I trained as a food inspector and I worked in several slaughterhouses for a few years doing post-mortem inspections. You are quite right in saying that many regulations are ignored or abused. This is partly a result of the fact that the kind of people who do the bulk of the work in slaughterhouses are not generally the kind we would want as nurses or looking after anything - human or animal.

As a result of my work both my wife and I turned to vegetarianism about 30 years ago. You should be clear in your mind of the difference between a "vegetarian" and a "vegan". A vegetarian is one who avoids all meats, including fish. A "vegan" carries this a bit further and won't eat animal products either, for example, butter, milk, eggs, honey. You would be unwise to start on a vegan diet at first as you need to study the subject to make sure you are getting enough of certain food elements for health. It is nonsense to say that meat is essential in a healthy diet. Millions of people live without eating any meat at all. There are whole countries (e.g. India) in which vegetarianism is normal.

You must be prepared to face a little ridicule and negative comment. It can be embarrassing if you are invited to eat in someone's home and you are served with a meat course which the host has carefully prepared. Do you announce "I don't eat meat" and push the food away? No - you make sure when you get the invitation that the host knows "you're on a diet" as some people put it. You don't have to explain but you could hint at a health problem. Sensible people will be quite understanding and make no adverse comment. If they sneer and abuse you - well you don't really want to know them anyway.

If choosing a restaurant avoid French restaurants - the French as a nation seem to be unable to understand vegetarianism. Best to choose Italian, Indian or even Chinese. Many Italian pastas are veggie.

To my shame I am rather less rigid than my wife in selecting food as I occasionally eat fish. But my wife can be rigid about not eating certain things to the point of rudeness. For example you might ask a waiter in a restaurant which dishes are vegetarian. If a waiter points to a fish item my wife will glare at the waiter and say in a loud voice 'A FISH IS NOT A VEGETABLE. I SAID I AM A VEGETARIAN!' Spanish and other foreign waiters of course often haven't the faintest idea of what she means. I say nothing and continue to stare at the menu as if I haven't heard the outburst
.

 

Directly related to being a Prius owner are the dramatic energy, water, and land-use efficiencies of being a vegetarian. While you're reading, I recommend looking at sources for that sort of information. I am a vegetarian, more for the efficiency argument than for the cruelty argument. (I cheerfully kill bugs all the time, not to mention millions of bacteria a day with my mouthwash!)

One well-analyzed example is that it takes about one hundred times as much water per calorie to produce meat as compared to grain. As one researches it, you wonder why self-proclaimed environmentalists aren't all vegetarians. Food production is, not surprisingly, one of humans' largest impacts on the planet.

 

PETA kills

Better dead than fed.

I certainly wouldn't rely on PETA to give me anything in the way of impartial information about anything.

In fact, when I see PETA, I pretty much figure it's 180 from what's *really* happening. Or at the very least...90.

Hypocrites comes immediately to mind.

Go to the bookstore and get some books from anyone that has NO connection to PETA.

 

Don't make the mistake that a plant-only diet is somehow automatically healthier or more "virtuous" than the naturally omnivorous human diet that includes both plant and animal foods.

Adequate, balanced protein intake is essential for health. Animal foods happen to have all the essential amino acids in exactly the proper balance needed for good health...plant foods do not. Excess amino acids that are not in proper ratio with other essential amino acids serve as little more than excess calories in the diet.

In order to maintain health, vegetarians must carefully balance grain and legume intake as each of these food groups lack a differnent one of the essential amino's. Only by balancing their daily intake of both grains and legumes can they come up with enough of the essential amino balance. If they don't, they will lose muscle mass and become gaunt and unhealthy. However, the cost of achieving that amino balance is a large quantity of remaining unbalanced amino's, which are still effectively excess empty calories.

I will echo the excellent advice previously given here by both Godiva and F8L regarding sourcing animal foods from farms and markets that subscribe to appropriate treatment of animals and also to add to do so as locally and organically as possible.

A malnourished vegetarian populace would not do society, the economy or public health any favors, even if it might make you feel somehow ethically superior.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(madler @ Apr 8 2007, 04:48 PM) [snapback]419947[/snapback]</div>

Americans eat a lot more protein than we need.

Eat a meal in a European restaurant and you're not going to get a steak the size of a platter. Americans eat a LOT more meat than they need.

I'm currently appalled at the McDonald's commercials for the new "Third Pounder". We need a third of a pound of meat in a hamburger? Like a quarter of a pound wasn't enough? Like we as a nation aren't obese enough?

Portions in America from fast food to our high end restaurants are out of control. I don't need a 12 oz steak when I eat out. I can't go to any restaurant and finish my plate. There is always something left over I just can't eat. More often than not I eat half and take a full meal home with me to reheat and eat later.

That just isn't necessary.

I restricted my meat intake for many years. Mostly for health reasons. I didn't lose any weight or control my cholesterol at all. The only meat I eat now is when I visit my parents once a week, plus maybe a hamburger during the week if I have to buy fast food. I certainly don't eat meat every day. My reasons aren't religious, health, philosophy or environmental. It's economic more than anything. Meat is expensive. But fresh fruit and vegetables are getting to be expensive too. Plus I really don't have time to cook like I used to.

But it is possible to be environmentally friendly and still eat meat.

If you want to really go the limits, there are those that say harvesting living plants is cruel. Then there are the conditions of the workers than do the harvesting. That can be considered inhumane as well.

But I don't recommend a steady diet of water. And I don't think anyone that has a full time job and lives in an urban area can raise enough food to feed themselves and maintain a healthy diet without having to buy something.

Check out the local Farmer's Markets. There's usually at least one, even in urban areas. You can get fresh fruits, vegetables and even eggs straight from the source. (Be careful with the eggs though; be sure they're thoroughly cooked.) I'm lucky to be on the ocean so I can get fresh fish as well, straight from the fisherman.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Apr 8 2007, 05:51 PM) [snapback]419948[/snapback]</div>

I've read this before somewhere...
That's what you said about dbermanmd!!!!
So, using the circular logic I've learned from our current administration...dbermanmd = PETA!!!
:lol:

 

I'm another PC veggie. I got into it through studying Buddhism and the idea of respect for all animals (no, I've never read or been involved with anything to do with PETA). I also realized that many of my favorite foods (pizza, pasta, mexican w/black beans, asian stir-fry veggies) do not require meat.

My wife, unfortunately, has a very limited palate, including very few vegetables that she can tolerate. So she has not given up poultry, pork, or fish, although she does eat less of it when eating with me. I have also recently begun eating fish again, since we just had our first child, and trying to raise a healthy 100% vegetarian child is probably too challenging for us.

As many have said here, what is important is that you do what you can. Every burger we don't buy from McDonald's cuts down on the demand for meat and the factory-farm process. If you do eat meat, try to find a local/organic/free-range source. And don't freak out when you cave in. Although I haven't caved much except for fish (I've even lost my craving for steak), I'm still a fast-food junkie on occasion, only now it's BK veggie or bean burritos.

Good luck!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Apr 8 2007, 05:19 PM) [snapback]419959[/snapback]</div>

That would depend on what you define as "need." As a proportional mix of all of the essential amino acids are absolutely required daily to forestall disease (think of the RDA's for vitamins and minerals) or the amount of protein one needs for optimal health? These amounts are not the same. Unlike most vitamins and minerals whose need is fairly consistent across the adult population, real protein requirements vary dramatically from one individual to another. You may find that 12 ounce steak to be too large a portion for you, it's just about right for me as a 6'1" 237 pound middle-aged male who must also keep my carbohydrate intake carefully restricted.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Apr 8 2007, 05:19 PM) [snapback]419959[/snapback]</div>

A third of a pound of meat (less than 6 ounces, before cooking, I'm sure) is not an unreasonable serving of meat at a meal. What is unreasonable is an extra-large side of fries and a 32-ounce soda sweetened with high-fructose corn syrup. I certainly can't agrue about the obesity rate in the US, but I can certainly argue that meat is hardly the culprit. Since 1960, per-capita intake of meat has consistently fallen, all while the obesity rate has consistently increased. Is this just a coincidence? As meat is an exceptionally "nutrient-dense" food, there's only so much of it that someone can possibly eat at one sitting and will remain satiated for far longer. Your own inability to ingest a full 12 ounce steak in one sitting is only evidence to that fact.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(AnOldHouse @ Apr 8 2007, 04:53 PM) [snapback]419949[/snapback]</div>

Considering the excess amount of animal proteins that the 'average' American takes in with combined with the shortage of 'healthier' foods like vegetables or greens in general, it's pretty safe to say that a vegetarian will be 'healthier' for most Americans. I don't even want to get into the whole discussion about the 'natural' omnivorous human. There is absolutely no proof that humans were by nature 'designed' to eat animals. And as was mentioned in previous post, millions of humans live on a purely vegetarian diet all their lives without any kind of negative side-effects (unlike the negative side-effects that meat-eating societies suffer from, like high blood-pressure, high cholesterol, artery-clotting, etc.).

From an 'ethical' (or virtue) standpoint, a vegetarian diet has to be considered 'more ethical', since less animals, i.e. sentient beings are harmed/killed than in a meat-eating diet. Unless one takes a purely anthropocentric standpoint and claims that NO beings other than humans deserve any kind of ethical treatment.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(AnOldHouse @ Apr 8 2007, 04:53 PM) [snapback]419949[/snapback]</div>

It's simply not true to make vegetarianism sound like a complicated system of formulas that have to be carefully ballanced in order to stay healthy. I've been vegetarian for 12 years and I virtually never calculate or even think twice about which kind of legumes I need to combine with which type of grain. This is the kind of anti-vegetarian propaganda that makes us veggies look like weirdo freaks who go to 'extremes' for some kind of 'utopian ideal'. Vegetarianism is much simpler and easier to do than portrait here. Veganism on the other hand is different story. That's when you need to start calculating and combining certain intake amounts.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(AnOldHouse @ Apr 8 2007, 04:53 PM) [snapback]419949[/snapback]</div>

But a 'malnourished' and completely overweight meat-eating populace helps?? Considering the massive probelms that this country faces with childhood (and adult) obesity, I really don't think that we need to be worried about the negative effects about people going veggie. In my opinion it would do society and especially the environment a HUGE amount of good if more people would think twice about what they stuff down their throat. The negative effects of a meat-eating diet on the planet are huge in comparison to a vegetarian diet. The amount of energy that is wasted to produce meat is enormous. In a certain sense eating meat vs. eating vegetables to get once daily energy needs is like driving a hummer vs. driving a Prius to get from A to B.

 

Yes.. if you are considering being a veggie head because of some PETA propaganda.. I suggest you look elsewhere. There are plenty of GOOD reasons to be a vegetarian.. listening to a quasi-militant domestic terror group that supports ELF and other violent domestic terrorist groups is not one of them..

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(alaskaprius @ Apr 8 2007, 07:21 PM) [snapback]419995[/snapback]</div>

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Yeah, those silly incisor and bicuspid teeth are sorta inconvenient little facts when it comes to you trying to argue that point and I can see where you wouldn't want to get into that discussion. Not to mention that all vegetarian mammals have significantly different digestive systems which include multiple stomach chambers and the like.

Got any more interesting, yet baseless vegetarian propaganda you'd like to share? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: