The Fahrenheit 9/11 Thread

I read Stupid White Men a few years ago and became a huge fan of Michael Moore. And even though I was a bit disappointed with his latest book (Al Franken's was much funnier and better written), I think Bowling for Columbine was an excellent movie. Thanks to Moore, I think I froth a bit at the mouth now, something I'm sure people find absolutely charming about me.

I agree with Danny, that Bowling ultimately made the audience think about the issue, rather than forcing an opinion upon them. I went in thinking "of course guns kill people, so gun control would mean lower homicide rates." But Moore even questioned this leftist view, citing Canada's high rate of gun ownership and low homicide rate. Some of my friends who didn't like it say "the movie had no main point." I tell them "that WAS the point, you're suppose to debate it afterward."

If Fahrenheit 9/11 is going to spark debate, it'll only be in that 2% of the population that doesn't already love or loath Bush. For me, there's absolutely nothing that he can do at this point to win my vote. I'd vote for Kodos or Kang before I vote for Dubya. But I'm still watching this movie, if for nothing else than to learn some new talking points.

 

Not to spark off any flame wars or anything, but maybe part of the problem your friends encountered was walking into it expecting a "move" and getting information instead.

I thought BFC was really well done considering the highly sensitive subject matter, but I can't help but wonder if Fahrenheit 9/11 is Moore's effort to "top" Bowling. I'll be going to see it either way and I'll have to form my opinion then.

Did anyone watch TV Nation or The Awful Truth? I thought those were both brilliant (and damn funny).

 

I agree with a previous post - doesn't matter if you agree with Moore, or disagree, his movies GET PEOPLE TALKING and THINKING about the people that we elect to lead our countries.

And that's what democracy and free speech is all about.

There's far too much voter apathy, usually due to people thinking that "no matter who you put in office, it won't matter - they'll all do a lousy job."

Well, as we've all found out over the past few years, it DOES matter who's in office when it comes down to making important, life or death decisions.

I personally agree with him, but even if I didn't, I'd fully support his right to make a movie and present his point of view.

I think there are going to be a lot of people (mainly politicians and big-business) who will really hate his movie and will try different ways of preventing people from seeing it.

And when they try and trample on his rights to put forth his point of view, and attack him personally, you know that they're afraid...

Dave

 

Alright, I just saw the trailer.

... is three weeks up yet?

 

Agree with everything here. I look forward to the movie, but I have no great hopes that this will be the straw that breaks the Cheney/Bush admin's back.

Plus, I think there have been some FrontLine documentaries on PBS that have made the point more accurately and tellingly than Moore's movie will. With less panache, and less underlining of the obvious absurdities; but with harder and more unassailable facts.

I personally find Moore to be something of a jackass; but the same can be said of some other directors/writers/creators who've done excellent work. Separate the artist from the work.

But from your mouth to God's ear, Danny!

 

Well, I think the real problem is that those few friends are pretty conservative, and had their minds made up before seeing the movie. Based on their reactions, I'm not sure Moore movies are good vehicles of persuasion, so much as a means of firing up the liberal base. The only complaint I heard from my liberal friends was that it was a half hour too long.

And yeah, I saw a season of The Awful Truth. Pretty good stuff : )

20 days and counting

 

I went in to Bowling for Columbine expecting an anti-gun movie. Since I am 100% anti-guns myself, I was disappointed that it is not anti-gun. I have since had absurd arguments with conservatives who have not seen the movie, in which they denounce it as anti-gun, and I try to convince them (without success) that it is not.

It took me a while to decide that what Moore is really denouncing in BfC is the climate of fear in the U.S. Of course, the Bush administration does everything it can to increase the level of fear and play on it for political power.

F.D.R. said, at a time of great crisis, "We have nothing to fear but fear itself." Bush says there are evil people out there and we must fear them, and give up our basic Constitutional rights in order for Big Brother to save us from the devil incarnate.

I'm looking forward to seeing Fahrenheit 911. I think Disney probably doubled or quadrupled the number of people who will see it, and i think that's a good thing.

 

What, no one likes "Roger and Me"? Growing up in the Tri-Cities area where Moore is from - man do they hate him there. Why? Well, mainly because of his showing how horrible Flint really was at that time - and still is in some areas. Plus, he was one of the few who 'broke the mold' of not going to work at Dow Chemical or GM in the area - kind of like how everyone here looks at Madonna, too (she's from Bay City)

-m.

 

Roger and Me is one of the few DVDs I own. I was always under the impression that Moore was a hometown hero in Flint? Do you mean the city leaders hate him? Or the population in general? He still seems proud to be from Flint, even if the entire area has completely gone to hell (no offense).

 

I wouldn't be surprised if a number of people from that area don't like him very much...

The truth hurts sometimes.

As a quick aside, another show that I've got hooked on recently is "Penn & Teller's - Bullshit!" (on Showtime). The two magicians debunk lots of pop-culture BS, as well as some more touchy ones like the PETA and Creationism.

I picked up the first season on DVD and was just glued to the couch while watching.

Of course, people wiho are overly sensitive may not approve of their style

Dave.

 

I gotta say, I like Bush. There is no way in hell I will be voting for him, but to his credit, he does what he thinks is right, too bad that means going against what America is and what it has fought to be since the revolutionary war. That takes balls. If he gets reelacted he may go down as the most unpopular president in history and he doesnt seem to care. I have to respect that in a man, but not in a president.

 

Passion of the Christ was supposed to be a groundbreaking, get people talking movie, and though many saw it, I don't think the world changed much. Or it has changed and the liberal media has suppressed the story! (relax, it's a joke). I predict the same for 9/11. People will see it, people will talk, but life will go on as it was.

 

i just received a forwarded email about this movie. the subject was how apparently michael moore did not get permission from ray bradbury to use the title. not sure exactly how that works, since it's not identical, but it does seem to me that it would have been polite to ask, since he is obviously trading on the popularity of farenheit 451...

 

Never believe ANYTHING you read in a forwarded email.

 

It appears to be true that Michael Moore did not ask permission from Bradbury, nor was he required to. Bradbury has made clear that he is not taking issue with the content of the movie, just the reference to the title. I agree with Bradbury that it would have been polite to ask, but the anti-Moore websites gleefully parroting Bradbury's comment are embarrassing in their zeal to prove something we all already know: that Moore is not always the most tactful polite person.

The point still stands: there is a direct comparison between the fictional government book burnings in Bradbury's book, and the real disinformation, cover-up, and loss of freedoms that surround our government's response to 9/11, as will be discussed extensively in the movie.

(Info in this post is based in part on info in this Link).

I'm looking forward to the movie. If viewed with the necessary skepticism due any Moore offering, it should be an entertaining and thought-provoking piece.

 

The only way this affects November is if it brings people to the pools who stayed away in 2000. Historically, a high percentage of total voter turnout usually helps a Dem. Candidate more than a Rep. Since I'm from TX, my protest vote won't have a great effect, but I just can't see myself voting for him.