The biggest tax cut in Florida's history

Working for a municipal government in California, we deal continuously with the impacts of Proposition 13's changes to the tax code. People don't understand that if they want the streets and sidewalks fixed, they've got to pay for it. The money doesn't come from police and fire - no locally elected official can be re-elected if they are in the paper cutting money from emergenct services - it comes from general maintenance of public infrastructure. This kind of maintenance can be defered for 10-15 years, and then it becomes unsustainable.

I think our sidewalk repair program currently has a 6 year backlog. We'll take their name, and put their address on a list, but it will be 6 or 7 years before we get the work done.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mad Hatter @ Jul 24 2007, 12:37 PM) [snapback]484202[/snapback]</div>

Thank God they still got you on the payroll surfing Prius Chat instead of spending the money on fixing the sidewalk. :lol:

 

I am not so sure that money isn't taken out of public safety. When our guv pledged his office to the Taxevader's League and refused to raise (or restore) taxes to cover huge state budget holes due to the carelessness of Ventura's administration combined with a downturn in the economy, he instead cut local government aid to Minneapolis and other cities to balance the state budget. In Minneapolis, a lot of money had to be taken out of police which then led to increases in crime (the police is finally back to 'full force' in large part to large local property tax increases). I never understood people who would rather save 15 dollars a month than to invest in infrastracture, education, and public safety. The difference between the most heavily taxed states and the least heavily taxed states is generally only a few percent (except Alaska and their oil money), and that one or two percent can go a long ways towards a higher quality of life.

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Taxes...xes.aspx?page=2

 

It's a joke, and one of the reasons I am moving to Dallas. Tired of the state of Florida, and it's ways.

Up next: No insurance. Yes, unless they fix the no fault law, soon, (I think it's October 1st, but I could be wrong), the current no fault law will expire, and that means in the state of Florida you will no longer be required to have insurance for your car.

Yup.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MarkMN @ Jul 24 2007, 02:18 PM) [snapback]484256[/snapback]</div>

They're called the New Republican Party.

 

"Thank God they still got you on the payroll surfing Prius Chat instead of spending the money on fixing the sidewalk."

Ummm....That could be said about a lot of us (myself included, though in private business). It doesn't mean we aren't doing our job. Ask Hycam guy if he got the AC fixed in his patrol car yet.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MarkMN @ Jul 24 2007, 03:18 PM) [snapback]484256[/snapback]</div>

I think the issue in Florida is that many of the people want to save far more than $15 a month from their property taxes because the taxes have been skyrocketing over the past eight years. Well beyond the rate of inflation. The average of $175 a year savings is probably due to the inequities in the property taxes. Long time owners have had their tax assement frozen in time while new owners are paying on the market value when they bought their house. Two identical houses on opposite sides of a street could have hugely different tax assements due to how long the current owner has owned it. Pennsylvania has similar problems, only the house is not reassessed at sale time. A new home might have a 5 or 6 times greater tax assessment of a 30 year old home that has the same market value. The counties don't want to spend the money to reassess the homes and there are several court battles in progress attempting to force them to.

Here is a different perspective about the Florida Tax Cut:
Florida Tax Revolt
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE("Wall Street Journal")</div>

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daronspicher @ Jul 24 2007, 11:41 AM) [snapback]484240[/snapback]</div>

1. My salary doesn't come out of tax revenues - I work for an enterprise fund (utility) which by law can't be used for any purpose other than the utility itself. Some times this is a good thing, some times not.

2. As an office support puke, I've dealt with 4 engineering suport requests, one angry citizen, one high billing problem, and a sinkhole in an apartment complex driveway between posts. Unfortunately, due to low staff levels during summer vacation, I can't leave the office to finish my field work on my next 3 projects, just in case a citizen calls. I'd much rather be in the field, thanks.

 

They might try having ambulances do double duty as hearses...

The comment "Now maybe we can take the kids to Disney World" pretty much sums it up. Penny wise; Pound foolish. That's us Americans.

Willing to buy stuff we don't need at twentysomething percent interest...not willing to spend a teeny bit more on services that better our own community...so we "can take the kids to Disney World."

I'm sufficiently appalled for one day.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mad Hatter @ Jul 24 2007, 10:37 AM) [snapback]484202[/snapback]</div>

Uh, Prop 13 was passed in 1978. Your 10 - 15 years is up.

There were two driving factors behind Prop. 13 ... sky-rocketing home valuations that were literally forcing people on fixed incomes to have to sell their houses because, even though they owned them, they had to pay taxes that exceeded their social security checks, and the change in the way schools were to be funded. The state supreme court had ruled that the practice of paying for local schools from local property taxes was unfair to the poorer areas of the state, as a child's neighborhood determined how much money his school got. The change to equalized state funding of the schools was coming anyway (at that time, school funding took a large part of the local tax collection).

Tax revenues were down for a few years, but then increased again. New homes pay extra taxes in what are called "Mello-Roos" fees that rival the old tax structure. And every time you move in California (average is every 6 or 7 years), you end up paying a much higher tax. Generally, property taxes are now 1% plus bonded indebtedness, averaging about 1.25% to 1.5%. But Mello-Roos fees can add an extra $500 a month to mortgages now, and "special district" fees contribute more. These fees are added by popular vote of the property owner, so the negotiations between city and developer include that the developer "votes" in the extra fees prior to subdivision, and the new owners of the property are obligated to pay the higher rate.

The difference now is that the county can only raise your property tax bill by 1% per year, unless there is a specified emergency. That allows people to budget their rent and mortgage without the unfair spector of having their property taxes double or triple in 10 years (mine would have tripled in the past 10 years because of rising property valuations).

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Darwood @ Jul , 12:58 PM)</div>

I've been wondering... is Hycam guy the same as Priusguy04? I was gone for a while so I missed the switch, if that's what happened. Reference to "patrol car" above seems to confirm what I thought. Is that right? Did you get a Camry PG4?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TJandGENESIS @ Jul 24 2007, 03:30 PM) [snapback]484265[/snapback]</div>

:angry: When my Wife and I moved down here in 2000, we bought a one year old, 2,900+ sq. foot, 3 car garage, 3/4 acre on a private pond home in Valrico (Bloomingdale), Florida for $205K. She had a job in Tampa making $39K and I had a job in Lakeland making $38K. In 2004, "scared" from the hurricanes we moved more inland to a part of Central Florida, Leesburg near Florida's Turnpike and US 27. We stayed there for a year but found our drives to work proved to be just too long and unbearable. By this time the housing market "exploded" (thanks to all the many house-flippers) and we ended up moving back to an area NEAR where we first started, but this time paying $265K for an 18 year old, 1,650 sq. ft., two car, 1/4 acre. My Wife currently makes $40K, our taxes and insurance have gone sky high, and I have long been out of work........ NO steady income for me, just "temp." jobs every now and then !! I've been very, very seriously looking for a permanant job for well over the past two years, but now at 54 years old AGE DISCRIMINATION is the biggest factor down here in this part of Florida.

Other than the nice weather from November thru March............. FLORIDA SUCKS !! We are sorry we ever left Connecticut, and the sad part is all our friends and FAMILY are all still up there......... we f*cked up !!
:angry:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fshagan @ Jul 24 2007, 10:10 PM) [snapback]484543[/snapback]</div>

I think that you misunderstood what the OP has written. Street maintenance and re-paving are still being deferred for fifteen years or longer from the time that they are needed due to funding restrictions which resulted from the passage of Proposition 13. I can show you quite a few streets within the city of Los Angeles that have not been paved in decades.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IsrAmeriPrius @ Jul 25 2007, 01:14 PM) [snapback]484798[/snapback]</div>

And, in San Mateo County, residents are required to pay for sidewalk repairs, even though that property --and the trees which are causing the damage to the sidewalks in the first place-- are owned by the County.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fshagan @ Jul 25 2007, 12:10 AM) [snapback]484543[/snapback]</div>

That all sounds lovely in the abstract.

I was in public high school, in Northern California, when Prop 13 passed; my observation was that funding to all sorts of programs was decimated.

The entire character of my school changed almost overnight. The bus which I rode was eliminated...there were no more loaner instruments in the bandroom, and we all had to buy the uniforms we wore for marching band (they were hundreds of dollars, so I could no longer afford to participate)...the chemistry department couldn't replace broken vessels and other equipment, and had to change their curriculum...the auto/wood/metal shops were forced to reduce the number of classes offered...funding for the art department literally dried up and it was closed entirely...it sucked.

But, hey...some property owners probably took their kids on a cheap vacation. So it was all worth it, I suppose.

 

California needs to quit bitching about Prop 13. It is the only reason people can still live in this state. Plus that was passed almost 30 years ago, you would think the state would have been able to adapt to the restrictions in that amount of time.

Why is not ok for a corporation to monopolize and industry and charge high rates, but it is ok for a government (which is a monopoly) to charge any amount it wants and you HAVE to pay! Because the government does good things for the people?? Yeah, well all the bitching against the Iraq war on this site should be an example of what government can do with more money. The key to a strong, streamlined and effective government is never more money it is less. (to some limit of course)

California’s budget last year was about $126,000,000.00! Where that money go?

1.4 billion Prop 42 transportation fees – Prop 42 was passed because the legislature was siphoning off gasoline tax revenue to pay for other pet projects.

55 Billion for education – Prop 98 – again passed because the legislature would not fund the programs

10 billion for UC and higher education

20 billion for Medical – California health care network

California makes enough money, the problem is, as the Govenator stated (but then reneged on) “California does not have a revenue problem, it has a spending problem!â€

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Devil's Advocate @ Jul 25 2007, 02:44 PM) [snapback]484886[/snapback]</div>

Um, isn't this also true of most individual Americans, and our very own Federal Government?

Democrats and Republicans alike have had their way with our State's budget.

Arnold is a model of duplicity; that's nothing new.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fshagan @ Jul 24 2007, 10:10 PM) [snapback]484543[/snapback]</div>

The lasting problem with Propostion 13 is the requirement of 2/3 majority for any new tax or fee.

I'll use a piece of local politics from a county I used to live in as an example. There have been various proposals and initiatives on the ballot for 15 years to widen California Highway 101 through Sonoma county from 2 lanes to 3 lanes each direction. They consistently recieve 63-65% approval, probably because the traffic loads on that particular road are suited for an 8 lane highway during peak hours. I have been parked in stop and go traffic at 10:00 on a sunday morning.

Another classic example is the "Car Tax" the the Governator used as part of his recall election platform. Easy to repeal it with a simple majority, but, a few years later with municipal governments all over the state suffering budget deficits (ours is $5 million) it is nearly impossible to get the 2/3 majority you need to reinstate it.

So, let's kill the "Car Tax", and then come back a few years later and try to float an enormous bond issue. Makes sense to me...

 

Hey Hatter;
It doesn't matter how much money the stae has, 101 aint getting widened in the area you describe EVER! Why? There will never be an EIR sufficient to supplicate the environmentalists and no growthers. So have fun waiting.

I'm just glad I got out of CA before the collapse. If it were as easy as you said to raise taxes this state would resemble the desert that it is.