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Tempremental Tire Pressure warnings?

Discussion in 'Gen 5 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by Will B, Oct 29, 2023.

  1. Will B

    Will B Active Member

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    This is the first car I've had with tire pressure monitoring. All was OK initially, then I got a warning on one tire about a month after getting the car. The tires were all a bit low, with one of the front ones being a bit lower. We were on a trip in the mountains and since the tires were only a little low, so I just "topped up" all the tires to specs once at home assuming it may not have been filled quite correctly.

    Today I got another warning! Again, just a bit low. One front tire was showing 29PSI on the MID. Looking back, both times were when it was particularly cold outside, so can see it being temperature related. Is this a case of me needing to tweak tire fillings based on weather to keep warnings at bay? The problem may always have been there, but with TPMS now am I just seeing the issue? I don't want to be dealing with warnings all the time, but don't want to be overfilling to avoid them either?

    How do 'yall deal with this?

    will
     
  2. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Tire Pressure changes about 1psi for every 10F change in temps. So you'll need to adjust for the seasons.

    Is it the same tire that was low? Could have a slow leak in that case.
     
  3. Will B

    Will B Active Member

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    @Trollbait: I think it is the same tire, but wasn't paying too much attention the first time. However, it is all four tires that are reading low, just one tire shows 1PSI lower than the rest (measurement error) which I guess was enough to get the low pressure alarm. After the first alarm I carefully filled all four tires to their rated pressures (35 front, 33 rear) plus about a half pound "just because". Looking at the TPMS's afterwards they showed a pound or two lower as I recall, but felt it was within tolerance of my gauge vs the TPMS's.

    I don't mind needing to change pressures by season and in fact pretty sure by heading to sea level shortly will need to do so for that reason, but at least here in Colorado, swings can easily be 40-60 degrees back and forth over a few days many times per season. Surely this system isn't sensitive enough that I'm going to have to inflate/deflate every decent-sized temperature swing?

    Since I'm about to head to the lowlands, maybe just before the trip I inflate a bit extra now, knowing it will get lower as I descend? Folk caution against over inflating, but if the tires are supposed to be at 33/35, I'm assuming something like 35/37 isn't terrible knowing it will be less within a day?? I did get what I believe to be a good quality tire pressure gauge, so using it as the reference.

    This is "laws of physics" stuff, so sure my tires pressure was changing a lot on my Gen1 too, but I just didn't have something measuring and checking it the whole time. Now I see and get alarms, before I didn't. I'm thinking it doesn't matter if it is my gauge or the TMPS's that are the more accurate, it is the TPMS's that are generating the alarms, so should fill to what they say is correct over my gauge.

    All sorts of new "problems" by going high tech! :)

    will
     
  4. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    A Toyota will light the TPMS light when the pressure drops 25% or typically 8 psi for a 33 psi tire.

    Adjust tires to recommended psi when the tires have sat overnight and not after driving which increases pressure. Then initialize the TPMS system to set the warning to 75% of that value, eg 25 psi for a 33 psi tire.

    If you initialize the warning when the tire is hot from driving, the tire is 3 psi higher. So the 33 psi tire becomes 36 psi and the warning is now 27 psi instead of 25 making it easier to set off the warning.

    You can adjust the cold tire to 33 psi, initialize and then add 2 psi for extra headroom. You just don’t want to exceed the maximum psi embossed on the tire which is normally in the 40’s.

    A Michelin Defender max PSI is 44.
     
    #4 rjparker, Oct 29, 2023
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2023
  5. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Tires are 'over inflated' for the trip on the ship to reduce flat spots and possible damage. It is possible someone could have reset the TPMS to that higher than placard pressure.

    Most tires have a max cold pressure rating of 44psi. Going a couple points over the placard won't hurt anything.
     
  6. Will B

    Will B Active Member

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    Thanks @rjparker and @Trollbait. I got the tires up to the placard level cold before the trip and looked at the pressure several times while on the road trip. So exactly 35/33 cold and while driving the front has varied between 37 and 39 and back 35-37. That seems a bit higher than I'd like, especially given I feel they are reporting low compared to my nice tire pressure gauge

    @rjparker, how to you initialize the TPMS's? I set them to specs cold the day before the trip and nothing else. Before I was getting a warning when one tire dropped to 29 which is about 25% below 36, so looks like it was reporting correctly.

    will
     
  7. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    That is enough except this week when the first big cold front comes in. I also got a low pressure message yesterday and simply aired them up. Usually that is it for the year.
     
  8. Will B

    Will B Active Member

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    OK, hopefully that is the case and I'm over-reacting after alarms. Both were related to the "first freezes", one in the mountains and one at home.

    will
     
  9. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

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    It’s for sure in the Owner’s Manual, which is quite a tome. Maybe download the pdf version (one source is Toyota Tech Info site, in the Manuals Tab) and search it for tpms.
     
  10. HacksawMark

    HacksawMark Active Member

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    Personally, for peace of mind, I would have the suspected tire checked out rather than potentially dealing with a flat on a road trip.
     
  11. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    On a new car there is a tire pressure sensor Initialize in the Screen Settings. Select “Vehicle Settings” and then “TPWS” (TP Warning System).

    The new Toyotas have a screen showing psi of each tire. Therefore it is easy to tell if the warning is a leak or caused by the weather when all are low.

    Old Prii use a button under the OBD2 you hold until 3 blinks of the indicator. They call it TPMS.

    These do not clear codes caused by a failed sensor, they simply reinitialize the tire pressure warning to 75% of current pressures. Obviously you inflate the tires to door panel psi first.
     
    #11 rjparker, Oct 31, 2023
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2023
  12. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    That pressure increase is normal with use. All your cars were seeing it. The pressure of tires in the sun will increase.
     
  13. Will B

    Will B Active Member

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    @HacksawMark: Good news is the only time tire pressure is reading low is on a sudden temperature drop, so pretty confident it isn't a leak. Now that I'm looking for deltas it is OK. But, I'm going to keep looking!
     
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  14. Will B

    Will B Active Member

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    @rjparker and @Trollbait: OK, will do some trolling of the manuals. Yes, I do have downloaded versions as I wanted to start reading them before I even got the car! :) Alas I suffer TEGO easily (The Eyes Glaze Over) when reading that much, so will do some TPMS searching and see what to do.

    For some reason I had convinced myself that reported tire pressure would go down as I went down in altitude, so figured being a bit high in Denver would be OK once we got to the lowlands of the east. To my surprise the cold tire pressure went up! Guess I'm not good at guessing on laws of physics. Now that we're going to be in the lowlands for 3-ish weeks, will go ahead and adjust pressure for here.

    will
     
  15. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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    It's a good thing to be tire pressure aware. ;)
    Personally, I wouldn't worry about tire pressure all that much as long as the read doesn't exceed the max pressure marked ( somewhere in fine print ) on your tires and all 4 tires are at the same pressure.
    Lots of Prius owners run higher tire pressures than the OEM recommended pressure.
    I keep mine at around 40 lbs. give or take.
     
  16. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    Going from 5280 feet to 3000 feet will result in a loss of “gauge” pressure of about 1 psi because of increasing atmospheric pressure by a similar amount. So you were right.

    Tire pressure will decrease approximately 0.5 PSI for every 1000 foot drop. So going from 5280 feet to 3000 feet causes “cold” tire pressure to drop by a little more than 1 psi.

    However that loss is small and generally masked by changing driving tire pressures (~3 psi) and later by warmer ambients at lower elevations.

    When driving further east the laws of physics are strictly enforced so be careful
    Laws of Physics Kansas City.jpeg
     
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  17. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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    Too many variables in the changing seasons, elevation and expected tire pressure clouding your perception of basic physics ?
    If you were driving a heavier car or truck you'd already know that the heavier the vehicle the more the tire pressure will rise after driving a set distance.
    It's usually not very noticeable in a car ie: a pound here or 3 lbs there. It might even turn on your TPMS dash light, but I'd doubt that.
    I'd be interested in how much of a difference you got form your two pressure reads and what you were expecting to see.
     
  18. Will B

    Will B Active Member

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    Interestingly, I measured the cold tire pressure here in Atlanta, so close to 5,000 feet lower than Denver and the tire pressures were all within a pound of in Denver. But, as I agree with @vvillovv, way too many other variables. Temperature is 50 degrees warmer, the car isn't empty as it was before loading it up for the trip and probably a few other things too. Given the TPMS is measuring +-2lbs from spec I decided to just leave the tires they way they were. They'll like go back up to +4/5 lbs once on the road again, but going to declare that fine and I'm trying to be more precise than is practical.

    After the first 1800 miles of this road trip pretty dern'd impressed with the car. If all goes well I can make it from Atlanta to Disney World in one tank + battery with some reserve. It took one and a third in my Gen1.

    will
     
  19. Ardatwork

    Ardatwork New Member

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    I got my Prius LE in August 23 and have been having tire pressure issues since October. Both tires on the right side lose pressure. Dealer rotated the tires at 5000m, the problem continued, they checked it out and said I might have a sidewall puncture in the back right. $270 to replace it and I'm not convinced. I opted to watch and wait. That tire is no worse than the front right -- they both lose pressure very slowly. Very slowly, but sometimes it's just one and not the other. I've put air in the tires twice since March 8.

    So, let me ask the group this: how is the pressure sensed by the car? There is a sensor, but is it connected to each tire? Is it more likely that the connection to the sensor is leaking air? From what I'm seeing, this makes more sense than both tires having invisible and undetectable punctures.
    Andy