synthetic oil service dept opinion

So, switching to synthetic oil will not be an advantage?

 

I have used synth in my other cars for years, with standard fram filters. No problems.

I don't see how using synth voids the warranty. Toyota doesn't recommend it. But that doesn't mean they are saying not to use it. If synth was harmful, they would certainly say DO NOT USE it.

If you extend the interval, I also don't see how that voids the warranty. The warranty states it doesn't cover failure due to lack of service. Will your engine fail because you went 5,001 miles between oil changes? No. Does that void the warranty? Will it fail if you go 9,000 miles? Of course not. Studies have shown synth good for at least 18-25,000 miles. No way I would go that long, but the point is, the engine has to fail from lack of maintenance, and a longer oil change interval with synth is NOT going to cause failure (unless you run the crankcase dry, but then that IS lack of maintenance).

 

The Prius engine is probably the last engine to need synthetic oil: 5000 maximun rpms, 76 hp, does not idle, and its almost impossible to overheat. Certainly nothing near the extreme temperatures at which this oil seems to have an advantage.

Someone in this forum has asked repeatedly about the composition of synthetic oil without receiving a satisfactory reply. The few answers given so far suggest that it's composed mainly of petroleum derivatives.

 

What about sludge? I want a sludge-free engine, and synthetic is supposed to provide that, whereas regular oil becomes sludge as time goes on.

Is Toyota ignoring sludge because it's really a myth, or only forms in those hotter engines, or what?...

 

ALso Synthetic is not crude oil based. In another area of the Toyota site it (FAQ) it does mention synthetics. The only thing that wasn't clear is why they say once synthetic, always synthetic. Other opinions don't seem to feel that switching back and for is as much of an issue though sludge build up would negate some of the synthetic advantages when switching back and forth.

 

Synthetic does not require a special filter.

Synthetic does improve gas mileage.

It's not easy for car manufacturers to void a warranty. They must show a direct relationship between your supposed warranty voiding activity and the failure that occurred.

If you provide the 4 quarts of oil you can at least rest assurred that the service department will not overfill your oil by any more than 0.1 quarts (our engines take 3.9 quarts of oil). Overfilling oil is bad and can cause the oil to froth up and not lubricate properly. In earlier postings on this forum on the subject, there were some who discovered careless oil overfill on checking their dip stick after service.

Old school thought was that one shouldn't mix synthetic with crude based oils (no switching back and forth). It was even recommended that crude based oils be flushed out thoroughly before putting in synthetic. This was a long time ago. NOBODY says that any more (you may want to check out the internet sites for the synthetics mentioned in the next paragraph for more information).

If you use, for instance, Mobil 1 SuperSyn, Amsoil, Shell Rotella full synthetic, Valvoline Synpower, or Kendell GT-1 you know you are getting true synthetic oils. There are others though that are blends so you should shop carefully.

It's best to not switch to a synthetic until the cylinder walls are fully conditioned. Most sources say 5,000 miles but 7,500 miles has been mentioned in other readings.

 

Total confusion on this subject. No one can tell for sure if using synthetic oil in a Prius engine is going to make a difference in the short, medium or long run.

However, if synthetic oil could make a significant, positive difference, wouldn't Toyota recommend it? Wouldn't all manufacturers use it and recommend it in order to reduce engine wear and thus warranty claims in today's cars with 50,000 to 100,000 mile warranties?

It seems to me that the only reason for using synthetic oil in a Prius engine is that you like your Prius so much that if there's the tiniest probability that it can help, you're willing to pay the additional cost; which, by the way, Toyota is not willing to pay. :wink:

 

Synthetic oil will not wear out.

You remove and replace the oil to remove "dirt" and other contaminates from the engine.

Eventually, the "oil change" will be replaced by an oil filter and additive replacement.

The reason I use Mobil 1 is that the car repeatedly re-starts and synthetic oil flows easier at all temperatures.

I believe (and that belief just may be akin to a religious leap of faith) that synhetic oil works better than dino oil. Has Castrol GTX and Quaker worked in my cars in the 60s, 70s and 80s, yeah.

Did those engines burn oil or suffer engine damage? No. (my 1989 Volvo with 213000 miles uses Castrol GTX 10-40 year round, no oil burning and close to original compression (I brought my infant daughter home from the hospital in that car in July 1989 and look forward to giving her the car on her 16th birthday next year)

I changed dino oil and filter at intervals not greater than 3000 miles and used the best lubricants that I believed were available.

Nothing has changed - I'm still using the best lubricants I believe are available.

This debate can only be resolved in 300,000 miles, I'l check in then. Beyond that, it's a matter of faith.

 

Collecting and summarizing some facts:

True synthetics are made of esters, polyalphaolefins, and other stuff not derived from petroleum. Synthetics do lubricate better and last longer than natural oils, but for most engines the differences are negligible. Just Google "synthetic engine lubricant" and start sifting.

Toyota does not tell us not to use synthetic lubricants. Toyota *does* tell us not to switch back and forth between natural and synthetic lubricants, but they don't say why. Toyota says that going beyond the recommended oil change intervals can void your warranty. See the owner's manual.

I intend to use Mobil 1 not because I expect any noticeable improvement in economy or engine life, but to minimize my use of petroleum products. I will follow the recommended service intervals because I'm not interested in putting my nice Toyota warranty at risk.

 

An ester is an alcohol reacted with an acid; these aren't derived from petroleum. Polyalphaolefins are made from alphaolefins :_> which are
most commonly made from ethylene gas, which is made from ethane, a by-product of natural gas (methane) production. (OK, so natural gas is a fossil fuel; at least there's more of it than there is petroleum, and buying it puts hardly any money into the hands of fundamentalist terrorists.)

One overview of synthetics is at http://www.performanceoiltechnology.com/wh...clubricants.htm

 

Where is the European Prius oil change schedule documented? I only read a summary that put it way past 5,000 miles, and when I write Toyota about a lame policy, I'd like to be able to point to Toyota documents...

 

So every country that produces petroleum supports fundamentalist terrorists... Don't we ourselves produce plenty of petroleum (remember Alaska)?

 

Why, I suppose that's true: the US does have a small number of Christian fundamentalist terrorists. But I was thinking of Muslim fundamentalist terrorists because much of their funding is provided by wealthy Saudi Arabians, whose wealth ultimately comes from selling petroleum to (ta-da) the US. People who love the US and value Western civilization should have as little as possible to do with that fucked-up shit.

 

Was at a Honda dealer just last week. When an older customer asked about syn oil as compared to dino oil, the service manager advised that by extending the service interval (ie from 3K to 10K or more miles) it would mean that the dealer would have that less of an opportunity (chance) to perform their "free" 25 point (or so) inspection. The result would be a greater probability of something going wrong with their car.

It would also mean reduced income for the dealer. But the service manager forgot to mention that. Gee, I wonder why?

 

The worry about using 1 gallon of dino oil every 5000 miles when we cheerfully put in nearly 10 gallons of dino gas every 400 or so miles seems fairly distorted. I attended a Redline presentation to the Porsche club some years ago and the real selling point had to do with holding up under extreme conditions, which the Prius does not experience (unless deliberate). Environmental friendliness as a rationale for synthetic oil seems quite a stretch to me as does any suggestion that ANY terrorist gives a tinkers damn about environmental niceties.

 

you dont say where you are from but we people on the west coast get 90% of our oil from the capitalist terrorist known as the US of A.