Switching Synthetic Oil?

Stay with a name brand. If you care enough about the vehicle to use synthetic in the first place it does not make sense to go with an off brand unless you know whose oil they are using and know that they will stay with that brand.

I use NAPA brand in my cars as they nameplate Valvoline have done so for many years to save a buck but I would never use any unknown brand of oil.

 

Synthetic oil in Prius is a common discussion topic. I have been using Mobil 1 in 2001 Prius since 43k odometer miles. I just did the change (again) at 92.5 k miles. I cannot claim any chnge in fuel economy. It seems pretty certain that sythetics will prevent the deposit of "varnish" on non-contact engine surfaces, but it is certainly debatable whether this aspect will contribute to longer engine life. There are other potential advantages to synthetic engine oil (start-up lube, shearing, oil film lubricity, etc) "Bob is the Oil Guy" is a good resource for those questions.

Some of us (especially post-warranty) use synthetics for longer than Toyota's recommended interval. Via engine oil analysis, I have become convinced that a 10k mile oil change interval (OCI) is not excessive. This moderates the added expense of synthetic oil and analyses somewhat. Importantly, it also provides info on what is going on inside your engine in terms of metal wear and dirt ingestion, which you simply cannot obtain in any other way. Plus the chemical analysis results (which have been posted at PriusChat before) provide a useful basis of comparison among Prius, and potentially a diagnostic tool.

If you choose to use synthetics on Toyota's OCI I seriously doubt that there would be any adverse implications to the warranty. Even with extended OCI, if you keep complete records of the oil changes and chemical analyses, and there *is* an engine problems, I reckon that it would be quite difficult for Toyota to argue that something you had done had actually caused the problem. This is what they must demonstrate (under Magnuson-Moss) in order to void the warranty.

 

I agree with the recommendation to check out BITOG (Bobistheoilguy.com). I'm a 2.5 year member over there and I've learned more than I could have imagined from the sight.

I'm new to the Prius myself, having taken delivery of one last weekend. I hadn't really planned to buy one, but I stumbled on a very nice, heavily loaded 04 model with only 15k miles, and a clean looking oil filler. Anyway, I came here in search of as much info as I could find about the car, but especially engine and lube stuff.

While I'd readily defer to the Prius experts (note, this is my 1st post here. . .), I don't think you can go wrong using M1. I've used it in I-4 and V-6 Camrys, a Highlander, and a Sequoia (which my wife still drives). I've done used oil analysis on all of them, and I firmly believe that M1 and Toyota engines (of any stripe) is a match made in heaven. I ran a fill of M1 5w-30 in the Sequoia for 13 months and 10k miles, and it showed barely any wear at all. Nearly as good in the others.

Supertech is fine stuff, just be aware that it's a Group III oil (hydrocracked from mineral oils), whereas Mobil is a Group IV (polyalphaolephin or PAO). After two years at BITOG and reviewing the hundreds of UOAs posted there, I'm far less concerned about an oil's genetics than I used to be (many basic dino SM oils perform as well as the syns, at least for the first few thousand miles). Anyway, it is probably a viable alternative, if the n-th degree of cost reduction of is your goal. Personally, I'd just stay with the M1.

 

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/

I run Mobil 1 with EDI on both cars. Castated. Both cars run Mobil 1 10w30. You can't go wrong with Mobil 1.

 

I was told that synthetic oils are good for engines that generate a lot of heat. Since the Prius ICE is not generating the kind of heat that a really high performance engine would it seems to me that using a synthetic oil is a waste of money. However, if it makes you feel better use it. Just my .02 on the subject. What is most importance is frequently changing your oil. My old International Scout got 300K miles on the engine with no problems at all using dino oil.
FishHawk

 

Synthetics are also good for engines that *don't* generate a lot of heat because they have a higher total base number- in a nutshell, this is an index of the amount of additives and other good stuff in there that counteracts the acids and things that are formed in *cold* engines such as that on the Prius..

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(c4 @ Aug 7 2006, 08:15 AM) [snapback]298967[/snapback]</div>

Good point. I first started using synthetic gear oil, engine oil, and transmission fluid due to extreme winter cold of -40. At -40 most oils are solid as a brick.

Kind of makes me wonder if Toyota got burned on some of their sludged-up motors due to longer oil change intervals and crappy North American oil. The much higher detergent levels in a good synthetic oil would have prevented that.

I posted a virgin oil analysis of my dealer 5W-30 Mystery Oil awhile back, and that stuff really was Bargain Basement crap. If I had to continue using that garbage, I'd probably change the oil every 3,000 miles. Truly awful, especially the high Na levels that had the testing lab worried about a slow coolant leak.

 

Does anyone have experience with using 5W20 "Royal Purple" Synthetic Oil? I can get what looks like a really good deal on a couple of cases, but I never heard of it before.

 

Study bobistheoilguy and you will find that Walmart's Supertech 'full synthetic' is not comparable with Mobil1 in quality or price. It is a group III oil made by Warren (MAG1) with a high quality hydrocracked base stock, but a relatively weak additive package. It's good for short oil change intervals like called for by Toyota and could be compared with high quality dino oils or some synthetic blends. It's not comparable with Mobil 1.

It shouldn't hurt your engine to switch oils. (Years ago this was a factor with synthetics.) You shouldn't expect the same protection from this oil as you can from Mobil1, but many, including Toyota, will say that it will provide adequate protection.

In the US, Toyota calls for oil changes every 5000 miles regardless of the oil quality above basic API specs. (In Europe, Toyota recommends longer oil change intervals using ACEA spec oils.) If you don't follow this oil change interval, you risk Toyota not covering any warranty repairs that could possibly be attributed to the oil.

 

[attachmentid=4431]
Here is my latest used oil analysis. 11k miles with Mobil 1 synthetic 5W30, with a Toyota OEM filter used the whole way.

Aluminum, iron and silicon edged up but not to troubling levels. The oil's viscosity and additive package held up well. I did not get TBN done this time, having already convinced myself that M1 can manage for 11k miles.

If anything, I am slightly concerned about the fuel dilution because I took this sample from a well-warmed engine.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rand Reed @ Aug 7 2006, 09:50 PM) [snapback]299384[/snapback]</div>

My first oil change was with Royal Purple...when I do my mileage updates, I'll give you the good word. Right now, though, the car seems to run really well with the Purple stuff.

 

If there is no change in milage/gas consumption and performance wise in the prius, my question is what is more environmentaly friendly?
Use synthetic oil and change it less often(w/o voiding the waranty) or just get what toyota recomend?
(puting more than what is needed will just go to waste)

Im a new poster and ill be getting my prius this afternoon.

good day

 

Hi DjEZ, congratulations on the new Prius.

0W20 engine oil will slightly improve fuel economy because of its lower viscosity. However its use in Prius is controversial, being not specifically approved by Toyota.

Synthetic oils will last longer in Prius as we have demonstrated. This means less used oil sent to recycling. Most of that ends up getting burned at sea as bunker fuel, AFAIK. So there is an envirnmental advantage to less frequent oil changes. However this is also controversial with respect to warranty coverage.

Important to restate that automible warranties cannot simply be dismissed. First there has to be a failure of some component, then Toyota has to demonstrate that your actions (outside of the warranty's stipulations) materially contributed to the failure. Magnuson-Moss Act.

I am aware of no Prius engine failures that have been linked in any way to engine oil, which does not imply that it could not happen in the future. Seems to me that most folks do it Toyota's way for the first 36k miles, later a few will try synthetics and longer oil change intervals. As our list of used engine oil analyses continues to grow, we will be able to make more definitive suggestions.

As your Prius is new, I will repeat my suggestion of getting the first engine oil change ahead of schedule. Not many agree with this, but if you do, and get that oil analyzed, we will know a little more about the subject.

 

you could always stock up on PENNZOIL PLATINUM full synthetic on sale at ADVANCE AUTO parts for $2.90 a qt. until the 28th of this month . Now have about 30 qts. for both cars , plan to change to the PLATINUM synthetic at the 1st 5,000 mile oil change . Using TOYOTA oil filters at $3.50 +tax each . Reasonble oil change for D.I.Y. . Take Care

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(smokey1 @ Apr 21 2007, 01:03 PM) [snapback]427321[/snapback]</div>

Also , I figure Synthetic be better for I.C.E. engine since it's more idle than your standard engine , thus less gunk to collect in pan and engine . Second . would help the small 1.5 ltr. on steep hills and higher speeds , being it's towing a 2,900 lb. frame and it's occupants , etc.. :blink:

 

Amsoil
oil change every 35,000 to 36,000 miles
with a filter change half way through
Total miles 103,330

 

Hi Devil, have you ever had the used oil analyzed under that regime? I understand that AMSoil is pretty strong on TBN, which may be the main issue for ultra-long long change intervals.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tochatihu @ Apr 24 2007, 05:42 PM) [snapback]429404[/snapback]</div>

I would if I knew where to take it. Who analizes this stuff and how much is it?

I can get a sample to anyplace in SoCal or SoNevada

Visually it is pretty dark by the time I change the oil but still very viscous. In other words I can still see metal through the oil that adheres to the dipstick. Actually not even as dark as the regular oil which I initially changed at each 5000 miles.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Devil's Advocate @ Apr 26 2007, 02:12 PM) [snapback]430657[/snapback]</div>

When I had an oil sample done, I bought a kit for that at NAPA. You follow directions, and then mail the samples in to the address given. They wanted a sample of the used oil, and a sample of the same oil in new condition.

Harry

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Devil's Advocate @ Apr 26 2007, 02:12 PM) [snapback]430657[/snapback]</div>

Blackstone provides FREE sampling kit, http://www.blackstone-labs.com/free_test_kit.html. Each basic test is $22.50, +$10 if you want TBN test. I've used them in the past and had pretty good experience.