Another 100 car pileup due to fog (in Fresno yesterday); two fatalities. Why we don't enact two simple laws escapes me. (And for those who hate "laws" as theoretically unnecessary if drivers would just use their heads, an overlooked advantage of a law is that it specifies a SINGLE STANDARD for situations where multiple reactions are possible. The problem with a fogged in highway is NOT KNOWING what others drivers might be doing - BECAUSE there's no legal guidance. Specifying, via vehicle code, WHAT to do would help a great deal). So, expand the vehicle code a few paragraphs to specify what to do in fog, so EVERYBODY does the same thing and reduce the carnage: 1. When visibility drops to fewer than 2 carlengths, reduce speed to 15 MPH, and turn on ALL external lights, including flashers. Truckers who occasionally sit high enough they're actually clear of low lying fog would have to drive AS IF they can't see. 2. Get in the rightmost lane and stay there. That puts everybody where everybody KNOWS where everybody is going to be. Fog or dust rarely extends beyond a few miles in any single patch, so the "inconvenience" of 15 MPH is not an undue hardship, particularly against the alternative hardship we keep smashing into now 100 cars at a time. Yeah, they're always be cheaters. Yoyos knowing all the left lanes are clear will zing into them at 80MPH. Let 'em go. The only people they'll endanger are other yoyos doing the same thing, and the penalties for cheating could be the same felony scale that reckless driving and DOI driving are now, with instant loss of vehicle and on the spot licence revocation thrown in for good measure. The important thing is simply establishing a STANDARD procedure for driving in fog, and vehicle code is the way to do it most efficiently and in such a way that ALL drivers will know it (just as treating a dead traffic signal as a four-way stop sign is a vehicle code standard we all know and follow now). Mark Baird Alameda CA
I hear your frustration. But adding more laws isn't going to make people more responsible, or smarter. Smart people already know the consequences of driving in fog. Idiots will just ignore the laws anyway, since the cops can't see them in the fog. There's evolutionary value in diversity, including intelligence. Smart people can learn from stupid peoples mistakes, as you have done witnessing idiots driving in fog.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(paulccullen @ Nov 4 2007, 07:44 AM) [snapback]534617[/snapback]</div> Of course not. That's not my point. What the law would do in this case is establish a STANDARD so no one has to guess what to do, or guess at what others will do, which is the major problem right now in fog - there's no legal guidance, so people do what they think best: some maintain highway speed to avoid getting rear ended, some slow down to avoid rear-ending someone in front, and on a multilane roadway no one has ANY clue at all about where other cars are, so WITHOUT legal guidance it's instant mayhem, as these crashes year after year after year keep demonstrating. It isn't that the drivers are acting stupidly (most of them, anyway), it's that WHAT to do is ambiguous until something clearcut gets established in the vehicle code. MB
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(airportkid @ Nov 4 2007, 04:56 PM) [snapback]534619[/snapback]</div> In france everything you said is in the "Code de la route" when fog occurs speed is reduced to 50Km/h or if the visibility is really bad the speed is adapted to it... We are also required to turn on the lights and rear fog lights and if available front fog light... It is the standard procedure here, unfortunately some bozo's won't respect them and cause accidents, sometimes deadly...
I agree. I think most US drivers do not even know safe driving practices in fog. But codification would cause more people to learn about and use safe driving rules like these. A similar law already in existence is the law that requires headlights to be turned on whenever one uses their windshield wipers.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(airportkid @ Nov 4 2007, 10:09 AM) [snapback]534608[/snapback]</div> Have to agree that it would establish a standard for driving in the fog. Great idea. Take it to your state representative and see if he or she will do something with it. Write your local newspaper and outline your idea and see if you can generate some interest.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BuddyL @ Nov 4 2007, 12:15 PM) [snapback]534650[/snapback]</div> Thanks! Already doing exactly that. MB
Agreed it would probably help to set some standards. A couple of years ago, my BF and I found ourselves driving through the Smokies in thick fog. He was driving, guided only by the double-yellow line that he could only see by looking out the open window. The fog was so thick that we couldn't see ANYTHING in front, behind, or to the side. We couldn't pull over because we couldn't see whether there was anything on the side. We couldn't stop because anybody behind us wouldn't have seen us. Of course, we had no idea whether we would run into the back of someone who had freaked out ahead of us. That was scary, and it lasted until we came down the mountain on the other side.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(airportkid @ Nov 4 2007, 07:09 AM) [snapback]534608[/snapback]</div> From the California Driver Handbook:
Hi All, Saw that wrecked vehicles on the news this morning. Noticed that most of the vehicles with smashed front-ends were SUV's and Pickups, and most with mashed rear-ends were cars. Hmm....
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(airportkid @ Nov 4 2007, 11:56 AM) [snapback]534619[/snapback]</div> So how are those current standards regarding traveling speed working out. You know, that 55 MPH speed limit thing. By knowing that standard, you can correctly expect people to travel no faster than 55 MPH, right?
I think the point is that with a standard/law, more (not all) people would follow safe driving techniques. Fewer accidents, fewer deaths, etc. would result. I think a more analogous law would be the windshield wiper/lights on law and the mandatory seat belt law. And even if the general speed limit laws were not fully observed, they do have some good incremental effect ... it's not as if we're all driving at autobahn speeds.
Don't drive with foglights on?!?! what kind of advice is that? Btw, I was in Simi Valley the day of the fog on vacation. It was pretty darn thick.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tideland Prius @ Nov 5 2007, 07:33 PM) [snapback]535221[/snapback]</div> You misread. 'Never drive with just your parking or fog lights." Best fog driving advice I received was from a California Highway Patrol officer/friend. He said that when driving in fog, never keep pace with someone you feel is driving too fast for the conditions, but, that it was safest to keep pace with another vehicle and use them as your scout by maintaining the maximum distance between you and the car you are following by maintaining a visual contact of just (only) their tail lights. This will give you the maximum reaction time should they hit another car or object. He jokingly added, "Better for them to find the obstacle for you, rather than you do it on your own." One recent multi-car fog related pile-up was caused when a lady decided it was no longer safe to drive. Rather than pulling off to the side, she stopped her car right there in the middle of the freeway. :blink:
In Europe you would have to activate your high intensity red rear fog light for a start. Driving at any speed in any conditions with 4 way flashers on is not smart. I see truck drivers doing this as the are stopping to revers into a loading dock or yard and it is plain brain dead. Who can tell me what that truck is going to do? Will it go left? Will it go right? Who knows because he has put his 4 way flashers on so no one has any idea. Apart from that the idea is a good one. Adelaide has a stretch of road which has a high accident rate due to steep continuous slope and it's often wet or foggy or both. About every 200 metres (1/8 mile) there are variable speed limit signs. They have multiple LEDs and are controlled centrally by the cities traffic control centre. the normal speed limit is 100km/h if there is a stationary vehicle on the road the limit goes to 80km/h, if there is fog or heavy rain 40km/h and if an accident 25km/h. The whole road doesn't have to have the same speed limit, it can be set up so speeds gradually drop aproaching a hazard. Maybe this could be used in USA in areas of frequent fogs, maybe it already is?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BuddyL @ Nov 4 2007, 12:15 PM) [snapback]534650[/snapback]</div> That's how ya do it. Reflection, then action. Great post Mark.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sufferin' Prius Envy @ Nov 6 2007, 01:32 AM) [snapback]535375[/snapback]</div> ohh.. well I was under the assumption that you can't turn on all the lights except the headlights (i.e. like the European spec cars where the foglights turn on independently of the headlights). Yeah of course you need your rear taillights
FWIW, the NJ Turnpike has lighted signs that allow them to reduce the speed limit during unsafe conditions. The signs indicate the reason for the reduction, such as fog or traffic congestion. People completely ignore these temporary reductions in the speed limit. One very foggy night when I was on the turnpike heading to NY they reduced the speed limit to 40 mph and I was the only person who bothered to slow down at all -- everyone else flew along doing 70 mph plus. I was terrified that someone would come charging up from behind and slam into me, but I also had so much trouble seeing that I wasn't comfortable going much faster than 50. As for headlights, the law here in Virginia is to turn on headlights when using windshield wipers, but many people routinely ignore that too.
Driving in a blizzard is similar. Slow down. stay to the right. try not to follow the tracks into a ditch. Use low beams.
