Sound Deadening Toyota Prius...Very Helpful!

Hey guys,

I contacted Don Sambrook at Sound Deadener Showdown based on one of the other threads I read on here, and asked him the following question:

"I'm in the process of trying to eliminate road noise in my 2010
Prius, which appears to be the loudest Toyota I've ever owned…lol.
It's also the cheapest, so go figure. But, anyways, I'm curious if
you have any recommendations on what I should get from you to sound
deaden the entire car: doors, floors, rear cargo area, probably not
the roof unless it's easy to pull down, which I doubt. Do you
recommend doing the hood at all? How much of each of your products
would I need to complete the job?"

And, I couldn't believe the response I got from him...so detailed and helpful I thought I'd share with everyone:

Chris,

Sorry for the slow response. I've never worked on a Prius but have measured one and gone for a drive to evaluate nose levels. Here's my best estimate of what you'll need and how I would treat each area -

Front Doors (each):
6 CLD Tiles, outer skin
1 CLD Tiles, probably cut into smaller pieces, inner skin
Extruded Butyl Rope
6.3 ft² MLV
9.4 ft² 1/8" CCF
6.3 ft² 3M Thinsulate Acoustic
2.5 Velcro Strips, adhesive 2 sides

Rear Doors (each):
5 CLD Tiles, outer skin
1 CLD Tiles, probably cut into smaller pieces, inner skin
Extruded Butyl Rope
6 ft² MLV
9 ft² 1/8" CCF
6 ft² 3M Thinsulate Acoustic
2.5 Velcro Strips, adhesive 2 sides

Clean the outer skin thoroughly. No matter how clean the rest of the vehicle is, the inside of the doors is likely to be very dirty. I use denatured alcohol on a rag. Wipe it down until the rag comes out clean.

Start by pressing Extruded Butyl Rope (EBR) between the outer skin and the side impact protection beams. Leave gaps every few inches to allow water to drain. Cut some strips from a heavy plastic bag and press them into the top surface of the EBR to protect it from dirt.
* All doors are configured differently. Some have more than one side impact beams. Some have the gap filled already, others have rubber or foam bumpers every few inches. The best way to know whether or not you’ll be able to do this treatment is to look inside your own doors.

Apply half the CLD Tiles allocated to the outer skin above and half below the side impact protection beam, assuming the impact beam divides the door evenly. Cut the remaining CLD Tiles into smaller pieces and apply them to the inner door skin.

Start with passenger side - the driver side is oftena mirror image of the passenger side with one or two more connectors. Hang MLV on the inner door skin using Velcro Strips with pressure sensitive adhesive on both sides. The strips are 2"X4" but you can cut them in half for this application (most applications really). Start with 2 pieces in the top corners to hold the MLV in place while you trim it to fit. You want it to be as large as it can be - just barely fitting inside the trim panel when it is replaced. You will need to cut some holes in the MLV to allow cables, rods, shafts, wires, clips and the speakers to come through. You want these holes to be as small as possible. Every place we use MLV we are building a barrier and a barrier needs to be as large and contiguous as possible.

It helps during the fitting process to periodically remove the MLV from the door and lay it in the trim panel to test fit it. The Velcro makes this easy. When you first hang the MLV on the door, cut holes where the trim panel clips go into the door. You can then use these holes to orient the MLV inside the trim panel.

When you are satisfied with the MLV fit, add two more Velcro Strip pieces to the bottom corners. It's generally a good idea to add a third piece on top for added strength. Try the fitted MLV on the driver side door. If it fits (reversed) use it as a template. You've just saved yourself a lot of time. If it doesn't, sorry to get your hopes up

By now you should be familiar with the interface between the trim panel and inner skin. The next step is to add a layer of 1/8†CCF between the MLV and the inner skin, using this technique:
http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/pdf/CCF_MLV_2side_Velcro.pdf
There probably won’t be space to go all the way to the edges. It’s not critical that you fully cover the MLV – just do the best you can. It is a good idea to use a temporary adhesive, like double stick tape during test fitting, before using HH-66 to permanently tack the CF and MLV together.

Finally, use HH-66 Vinyl Cement to tack a layer of closed cell foam (CCF) on the side of the MLV facing the trim panel. When the trim panel is reinstalled, the CCF will compress slightly, getting rid of rattles and buzzes in the trim panel itself and between the trim panel and the inner door skin.

Finally, cover as much of the trim panel as possible with 3M Thinsulate Acoustic. Use a few drops of hot glue to tack it in place. Make sure you don't interfere with any moving parts.

Kick Panels (each):
.5 CLD Tiles
.7 ft² MLV
.7 ft² 1/8" CCF
1 Velcro Strips, adhesive 2 sides (cut into thirds)

Getting MLV and CCF into the kick panels is important because so many noises enter through the area. Exactly how you do this depends on what you find when you get there. Sometimes you can just run the MLV in a continuous piece up from the floor. In others, you’ll need to use a separate piece. Some cars have a rat’s nest of wiring behind the trim panel. In this case, consider mounting the CCF and MLV to the trim panel itself.

Floor:
6 CLD Tiles
27.5 ft² MLV
21.5 ft² 1/4" CCF
6 ft² 1/8" CCF (under center console)
2 Velcro Strips, adhesive 2 sides (under center console)

I've specified 1/3 as many CLD Tiles as the area would normally indicate. Most vehicles have some stock vibration damper on the floor. Assuming it is in good condition and you don't intend to pull it out, this should be enough to treat the bare metals areas. There's nothing to be gained from adding CLD Tiles on top of existing material.

Cut 1/4" CCF to fit the bottoms of the floor pans and up into the foot wells and lay it in place. You really don't need any adhesive or other attachment products for the floor. Gravity, the carpet and trim panels will hold everything in place. Finally, lay MLV on top of the CCF, extending up and over the center tunnel, sills and everywhere you can without interfering with trim panel replacement. You will need to cut holes for the seat bolt downs and seat belt anchors if they are on the floor. Again, make these holes as small as possible. You are basically upholstering the floor with MLV. MLV is quite flexible and will easily follow a simple curve. Where it needs to be fitted to complex curves you will need to do some cutting. Use HH-66 to seal the seams in the MLV as you go, overlapping about 1/2".

Back Seat Platform / Riser:
3 CLD Tiles
8.6 ft² MLV
8.6 ft² 1/8" CCF
3 Velcro Strips, adhesive 2 sides

Roof:
12 CLD Tiles
19.2 ft² 3M Thinsulate Acoustic

CLD Tiles are the critical treatment for the roof - it's a large resonant panel directly over your head. I'm very impressed with the results I've gotten by filling the space between the headliner and roof with Thinsulate. It soaks up mid to high frequency sound that can make a very big difference in the noise levels inside the cabin. It's an excellent thermal insulator for good measure.

I use a few drops of hot glue to hang the Thinsulate in place - it doesn't take much. Black side toward the roof, white side facing down.

Cargo Area Floor:
8 CLD Tiles
14.2 ft² MLV
14.2 ft² 1/8" CCF
3 Velcro Strips, adhesive 2 sides

Quarter Panels (each):
4 CLD Tiles
5.8 ft² MLV
5.8 ft² 1/8" CCF
2.5 Velcro Strips, adhesive 2 sides

Hatch Door:
3 CLD Tiles

General Notes
HH-66 is a contact adhesive that will only bond materials with vinyl content. That means MLV to MLV, CCF (like the material I sell with vinyl content) to CCF and MLV to CCF. You need to coat both surfaces and let them dry until just tacky, 3-5 minutes. Press the two parts together. The bond is more than strong enough to work with immediately. It will achieve its full strength after a few hours.In most cases you won't need to coat the entire surface - tacking in a few spots is usually sufficient.

Velcro Strips can be cut in half (2â€X2â€), or thirds, for all but the most demanding applications. When working with the self-adhesive side(s) of the Velcro Strips press the entire assembly into place. It is a good idea to gently separate the hook and loop sides and press them down individually to make sure the bond is complete.

I think it’s important that the MLV and CCF layers be removable. It’s just not a good idea to install these materials assuming that vehicle maintenance will never be required. Preserving the ability to remove and replace the barrier won’t harm performance and should be considered during installation.

Overlapping MLV is one way to deal with seams. I usually prefer to cut 2†wide strips to use as “tapeâ€. I butt the pieces of MLV together and then use HH-66 to bond the 2†strip over the seam. This is almost always easier and makes it easier to follow compound curves.

Totals:
67 CLD Tiles
1 roll Extruded Butyl Rope
87.9 ft² MLV
21.5 ft² 1/4" CCF
78.6 ft² 1/8" CCF
43.8 ft² 3M Thinsulate Acoustic
25 Velcro Strips, adhesive 2 sides
1 32 oz can HH-66 Vinyl Contact Cement

As an Order:
67 CLD Tiles @ 2.25 = $150.75
1 roll Extruded Butyl Rope @ 8.75 = 8.75
1 99 ft² roll MLV @ 158.90 = 158.90
2 sheets 1/4" CCF @ 27.65 = 55.30
6 sheets 1/8" CCF @ 14.55 = 87.30
45 ft² 3M Thinsulate Acoustic @ 3.70 = 166.50
2 Velcro Strips, adh. 2 sides, 10-pack @ 14.65 = 29.30
3 Velcro Strips, adh. 2 sides, 2-pack @ 3.25 = 9.75
1 32 oz can HH-66 Vinyl Contact Cement @ 15.25 = 15.25
1 2" Maple Roller (Free w/ 60+ CLD Tiles) N/C

Sub Total: $681.80

I don't have $681.80 right now to do all of this, but dang that was a detailed and helpful response. Obviously, he wants to sell his product, but I think this is extremely helpful in knowing what the best scenario could be. I'm wondering if anyone has personally used his products and could let us know if you'd recommend them, etc? Thanks for the help,

Chris

 

So, I had responded to Don with the following question:

Hey Don,

Wow, that was a fantastic response…so detailed and helpful. You don't
live near Boone, NC by chance do you…lol? This sounds like a ton of
work. Plus, I can't afford to pay that much right now to sound
deaden my car, although I'd really like to. If you were to start on
the best bang for the buck, which sections would you do first? Thanks
again for all the help…this is huge,

Chris

And, he responded with:

Chris,

Is 500 miles close ? I'm in Manchester, Maryland. Had a customer drive up from Charlotte last week. Up and back in one day.

Before I get back to your question, I remember I forgot to answer your question about the hood. You don't get much improvement by treating the hood of most modern cars. Engine noise would have to pass through the hood and windshield to get inside the passenger compartment. The farther away the windshield gets from vertical, the less sound can make the trip. I've treated hoods on similar cars and gotten no measurable improvement. I always encourage people to treat the interior first. After that you'd be able to hear if any sound is coming in through he hood and windshield.

My usual suggestion for a best bang for the buck or first phase are the doors. That will take a big chunk out of traffic noise, get the portion of tire/wheel noise that enters through the doors and improve the performance of door mounted speakers. Treating the doors can make a significant difference in overall noise levels.

There's a potential downside related to the way we hear and perceive sound. In an untreated noisy car, noise is coming at you from every direction. That makes it difficult to localize and identify the individual sources. Cutting the noise off from a few directions makes it easier to hear what's left. A typical result is for the engine to sound louder after treating the doors. It isn't, it's just easier to hear.

This is hard, or at least time consuming. You are rebuilding the vehicle to make it conform to a different design goal than the manufacturer's. Doing a full vehicle can easily take 2-3 days. I'd expect to spend a few hours on each door - more on the first one, less on each one after the first.

Doing just the doors would look like this:

Front Doors (each):
6 CLD Tiles, outer skin
1 CLD Tiles, probably cut into smaller pieces, inner skin
Extruded Butyl Rope
6.3 ft² MLV
9.4 ft² 1/8" CCF
6.3 ft² 3M Thinsulate Acoustic
2.5 Velcro Strips, adhesive 2 sides

Rear Doors (each):
5 CLD Tiles, outer skin
1 CLD Tiles, probably cut into smaller pieces, inner skin
Extruded Butyl Rope
6 ft² MLV
9 ft² 1/8" CCF
6 ft² 3M Thinsulate Acoustic
2.5 Velcro Strips, adhesive 2 sides

Totals:
26 CLD Tiles
1 roll Extruded Butyl Rope
24.6 ft² MLV
36.8 ft² 1/8" CCF
24.6 ft² 3M Thinsulate Acoustic
10 Velcro Strips, adhesive 2 sides
1 8 oz can HH-66 Vinyl Contact Cement

As an Order:
It's important to have a single piece of MLV for each door. Since MLV comes on a 54" wide roll so a 36"X54" sheet will be enough for both front doors and 32"X54" sheet will do for both rear doors.

26 CLD Tiles @ 2.45 = $63.70
1 roll Extruded Butyl Rope @ 8.75 = 8.75
1 36" X 54" sheet MLV @ 26.00 = 26.00
1 32" X 54" sheet MLV @ 23.12 = 23.12
3 sheets 1/8" CCF @ 14.95 = 44.85
25 ft² 3M Thinsulate Acoustic @ 3.90 = 97.50
1 Velcro Strips, adh. 2 sides, 10-pack @ 14.65 = 14.65
1 8 oz can HH-66 Vinyl Contact Cement @ 8.50 = 8.50

Sub Total: $287.07
Shipping: 47.65
Total: $334.72

To cut back on this, I'd skip the Thinsulate. You'll still get a good result and can easily return to add it later.

26 CLD Tiles @ 2.45 = $63.70
1 roll Extruded Butyl Rope @ 8.75 = 8.75
1 36" X 54" sheet MLV @ 26.00 = 26.00
1 32" X 54" sheet MLV @ 23.12 = 23.12
3 sheets 1/8" CCF @ 14.95 = 44.85
1 Velcro Strips, adh. 2 sides, 10-pack @ 14.65 = 14.65
1 8 oz can HH-66 Vinyl Contact Cement @ 8.50 = 8.50

Sub Total: $189.57
Shipping: 28.68
Total: $218.25

Now I just have to decide what I want to do...lol. So many options and too little time and money.

Chris

 

I didn't ask him that, but I will.

Chris

 

I asked him today finally, and he responded and said roughly 120lbs for the full treatment.

Chris

 

120lbs is nothing really. I've had my prius completely loaded down to the ceiling with heavy construction tools plus a huge hitch box full of tools and it only dropped my mpgs a few mpg, and that was probably mostly aerodynamics not weight. These cars are amazingly efficient and capable.

Chris