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Short-trip PHEV mpg record

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by elecblue, Dec 12, 2006.

  1. elecblue

    elecblue New Member

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    On my 3rd tank the average is only 55 mpg on the PHEV Grey Perl. That's mostly due to cold weather, driving at highway speeds, and running the heater. Without the PHEV it would be about 40-45 mpg.

    Last Friday I wanted to see how far I could push the system. After an initial warmup, I hit expressway traffic head-on at 5:30pm, the worst time for stop-n-go. I turned the heater off (burrr - 25 F that day!), bundled up with my hat and gloves, and cranked up the PHEV.

    Distance - 14.5 miles

    Avg. mpg - 117 mpg. Ran nearly the entire time in EV mode. New record for Grey Perl.
     
    #1 elecblue, Dec 12, 2006
  2. eagle33199

    eagle33199 Platinum Member

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    Whats the range on your PHEV conversion? Also, why go through warm up if you aren't going to be using the ICE (like you said, stop and go, and it sounds like it was expected, too)? Seems to me that you could have gone 100% EV from the garage on, spending no gas to get where you were going.

    When i finally get a PHEV, i pretty much plane to drive it in EV mode for the entirety of my commute, both ways, and try to save as much gas as possible...
     
    #2 eagle33199, Dec 12, 2006
  3. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    Elecblue, please tell us more about your PHEV. Is this a Prius conversion? Which version is it? Did you do it yourself or have someone else do it? If someone else did it, who and where? What did it cost? What's the theoretical EV range?

    Eagle, if he's talking about a Prius conversion, he'll have the same speed limitations as we do. If he exceeds 34 or 42 mph (depending on how the car went into EV) or needs much acceleration the engine will start and go through warm-up. Reading the EDrive Systems web page (one possible implementation of PHEV for the Prius) it's not intended to operate as a pure EV, rather it's intended that grid power supplements gas power, due to the speed and power limitations of the HSD. With a normal Prius with an EV switch, you have to accelerate very gently to avoid starting the ICE. In order for a PHEV Prius to operate like a normal car (acceleration, speed, etc.) you have to be willing to allow the engine to run.
     
    #3 daniel, Dec 12, 2006
  4. jstack

    jstack New Member

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    Electric blue, I tied to order the same PHEV and they wanted 11,000 with lead acid batteries. When I first asked it was 5,500 so I gave up and will make my own.

    Energy CS will make mine a PHEV with lithium batteries for double the all elctric range. They just are still testing and will be available later in 2007.

    A few friends of mine that have built all elctric witrh me feel we can do it ourselve for about 3K. Now that seems like a reasonable cost and idea.

    I just added 4 evergreen solar panles to my grid tied system to make more clean power for my home and PHEV very soon. Saving energy and money is the best hobby we can ever have. It sure beats bowling or riding in a boat to no place. Yet some people say hybrids don't save and pay for themselves. I save on brake wera with regenerative braking, less oil changes, musch less pollution and get 60+ mpg most of the time.
     
    #4 jstack, Dec 12, 2006
  5. elecblue

    elecblue New Member

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    Hey Jim, hey guys -

    Sorry I'm getting back to you so late on this. Daniel, you are correct - given the cold weather and a host of other parameters, the PHEV kit cannot run on pure EV mode all the time. The best I've been able to do is 1.8 miles in EV mode. A standard Prius should be able to do about 1/2 that (the NiMH battery, as you're aware, likes to be > 45% and < 70% SOC). When the weather gets warmer in April/May I should be able to do more, and, god willing, do my entire commute in EV only mode.

    One thing that I would like is to be able to override the EV only parameters - the electric motor is capable of speeds much > 34 mph, albeit with slow acceleration. I guess this isn't possible at this time but it's still nice dreamin'.

    I think of the 'ole days with Electric Blue (converted Nissan Stanza Wagon) that I could squeal the tires from a start with the motor and controller I had in there...

    Grey Perl is a converted PHEV from Manzanita Micro. Yes, I believe he raised the price to $11k. Most of the cost is probably still considered 'research', although there were substantial shipping costs which is why the price went up (I paid $10k). I don't have the design for the relay box which is the primary reason I didn't attempt to do this myself. I've heard a few stories from the EAA-PHEV list serv about other conversions that quit or don't work, so I went with a system that seems to have the 'kinks' worked out. No real cost benefit - I'm just being a 'pioneer' (although I know I'm not the first - in fact, I'm #20).

    Please email me if you have any other questions at [email protected].
     
    #5 elecblue, Dec 28, 2006
  6. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    While being able to drive in all-electric is a lot of fun, I think trying to extend your EV range with a PHEV conversion is the wrong way to look at it. I believe the real point of a PHEV is to add grid power as an energy source, and the goal should be, not to maximize EV range, but rather to maximize the proportion of grid power in the gas/electric mix.

    If you could achieve (pulling numbers out of the air here) 90% grid power and 10% gas power, and the car did not go EV more often than an unconverted Prius, you'd have accomplished a big savings in pollution and fuel cost, whereas if you achieved 3 miles of EV but only got 10% grid power into the mix, you'd have accomplished little.

    That's why I no longer want a PHEV. I want an EV.
     
    #6 daniel, Dec 28, 2006
  7. elecblue

    elecblue New Member

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    It's true that the best effect of the PHEV is not necessarily achieved by seeing how far the car can go in EV only mode. When the ICE is used less ("ICE Spin" or "Stealth" modes) which can happen even at highway speeds, you are using less gasoline and more energy. Part of the equation for why the PHEVs work.

    However, after driving an EV for 3+ years, I would like to see what the PHEV is capable of. With my best mpg (117 - see other posts) on a 14-mile trip from work, the ICE actually warmed up to 165 F for the first 5 min. of the commute, creating horrible gas mileage. However, since it was warm and stayed that way for most of the trip home (I turned off the heater), the ICE hardly ever kicked on for the rest of the journey.

    Starting from EV only mode gets me maybe 1-2 miles before the ICE kicks in, for reasons not entirely understood. I actually can get better gas mileage by running the ICE first, then backing off (indirect control of this) once it's warmed up.

    If you want to get an EV, see www.eaaev.org for a listing of chapters near you. Even if nobody is nearby, there is a large EV community out there for those who convert a vehicle or have purchased a converted vehicle. I would bet several thousand drivers in the US are driving EVs. I know of about 50 here in the Chicago area alone.
     
    #7 elecblue, Dec 29, 2006
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