Scared to buy a Prius...

Hybrids are no so rare in Minnesota. Check out http://john1701a.com/
for a world of information about hybrid driving in Minnesota.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bea2006 @ Apr 22 2006, 08:12 AM) [snapback]243581[/snapback]</div>

As a brand new Prius owner, I know I can't answer all your questions but I'll do my best to answer a few.
1) Mileage - The little highway driving that I have done in the past couple of days has encouraged me that a 50mpg is attainable. The are many references here on PriusChat to mpg charts of various members. Check them out.
2) From what I've read, you get better mileage in summer than winter. But that's probably true for most cars.
3) The same safety test review that described the whiplash test as marginal ended up giving the Prius an "excellent" safety rating (as long as you have the side air bags option). If memory serves is was like a 9.4 out of 10. The "You would be a fool to go with a Prius since they did only marginal with the whiplash test." quote sound like a bit of anti-hybrid editorializing by the writer. I don't recall seeing it in the review.
4) Don't know.
5) You can't go wrong with a Toyota.
6) I am being honest. But these are still my opinions and comments.
7) One of the most amazing things about the Prius is the roominess inside. We were almost shocked the first time we got in one. I recently described the Prius as looking like a compact on the outside; having the room of a mid-size or bigger inside; and driving like a luxury full-size. Quite the combination.
8) The Prius and the Civic are probably close.
9) What does that tell you? There is a reason for the wait. The Prius is the most popular hybrid out there. It's also the best.
10) I agree. We too had a tough decision to make. Finances were tight coming off of a lengthy period of unemployment. I was worried about the cost, worried about the payments, worried about these crazy gas prices. We pulled the trigger in February and got the car a couple of days ago. So far we're very happy.

I'm sure many of the most experienced Prius owners will jump in and provide much better answers to your questions.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bea2006 @ Apr 22 2006, 08:12 AM) [snapback]243581[/snapback]</div>

Neither will any other car.

Well, after a quick Google, it seems the Prius got "marginal" in the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety's tests in the whiplash test. As did many vehicles. And yes, the Civic did do well on all three tests.

Technology marches on, and there will always be a New Thing around the corner. You'll be waiting forever if you decide to wait for it.

Hondas are great cars. They aren't the only great cars, though.

Short trips seem long with kids

According to GreenHybrid, the Civic Hybrid averages 46.2 MPG while the Prius averages 47.5 MPG

Yup.

 

1. Recent articles and people have said that we would be better off to buy a "Corrolla" or "VW Jetta Diesal" or regular Civic which will get better highway miles than a Prius. "The Prius is better for in town driving and will not save you any money."

One data point: I drive 30 miles to/from work each day (60 miles roundtrip), most of this is at highway speeds - I stay between 65 and 70 MPH. I try not to accelerate faster than I need to. I try to keep an eye on traffic ahead to minimize fast stops. I average a little over 50 MPG. This number has been going up with the temperature. Current tank MPG is 54+. Actual savings on fuel will of course vary depending upon price of fuel and how long you keep the car. I've had my Prius for several months now (not quite 6000 miles driven) and by my calculations have saved only a little over $170 in fuel costs than if I had bought a car that averaged 30 MPG.

2.The Prius will not give you the mileage in the winter.

The Prius will get lower MPG in the winter or colder climates than in the summer or hotter climates. This is true of all internal combustion engine-based cars (diesel included.) I do not know if temperatures affect the Prius more than other cars. I suspect not, meaning that in the winter, the Prius will still get better MPG than just about any other car on the road, except the Honda Insight and _possibly_ the Hybrid Civic or VW Diesel Jetta.

3. Based on the resent safety test..."You would be a fool to go with a Prius since they did only marginal with the whiplash test. Get the Honda Hybrid which is top for safety in all categories." (Now that really pulls at a mom!) PLEASE ESPECIALLY ANSWER THIS POINT. IF IT REALLY IS NOT AS SAFE FOR THE KIDS THEN...

If safety is your number 1 concern, then you should make your choice based on that. Look at the safety results of each car you are considering. Based on their recent advertising, I'd guess the VW did quite well. I believe that the prius did better when you get the side airbag option. Find the website with the actual results and research there.

4. The Prius is scheduled to be changed in 2008 or 09, so the value of your Prius will go down compared to the Honda Civic Hybrid which is new this year and will not probably change for another 4 years.

I can't predict the future so won't attempt any speculation here.

5. "You can't go wrong with a Honda"

True in my experience. Most of the members of this site will say the same of Toyota. At least one will say the same of GM. I've _heard_ from many people that VW's tend to have more problems. I've also heard that VWs are expensive to have serviced.

6. My husband and I realize that we have to learn to drive the Hybrids appropriately to get the mileage needed. This is a huge financial decision for us. Please be so honest with your answers.

You can _maximize_ your MPG by changing your driving habits (true for any car), but you'll get good (really good) MPG reguardless.

7. We piled the kids into both cars. The Honda Hybrid is nice without the bump in the middle, but we felt less squished in the Prius (these will be short trips with all of us.

Yup, the Prius is quite roomy.

8. The Prius electronics pull on our emotions, but our priority is mileage. It seems the Honda Civic H is about the same as the Prius?

Every car on the road today has more computer processing power than the Apollo spacecraft - probably more than the shuttle. The Prius's are more noticeable, but I don't _think_ they are any more prone to fault than any other car's electronics.

9. No wait on the Honda Civic Hybrid vs 3 month wait at least on the Prius.

This would seem to indicate that your concerns for resale value (#4) may not be completely justified. I don't think you should put as much emphasis on this item as others, unless your current car is on its last legs.

 

4. The Prius is scheduled to be changed in 2008 or 09, so the value of your Prius will go down compared to the Honda Civic Hybrid which is new this year and will not probably change for another 4 years.

Well, my crystal balls says, the resell valve of my (2006) will remain high, the 2008-09 Pruis will be so popular becasuse of the price of gas evenone will be on a 4 month waithing list to get one, including me (if the 90mpg is true) so they won't really be readly available until 2010. In the 2nd quarter of 2010 I'll should sell my 06 for 19-20K buy a 2010 for 24K...
I sure hope my crystal ball is right...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bea2006 @ Apr 22 2006, 05:12 AM) [snapback]243581[/snapback]</div>

According to Honda's Competitive Comparison website, the Prius has 6 cubic feet over the Honda Civic in Passenger area and also in Trunk area. Plus the Civic isn't a hatchback. In the Prius you can fold down the rear seats for even more cargo area.

A question (I don't know the answer so am curious) about the Honda hybrids. If safety is an issue, do they have a rear camera to help you see what's behind you?

Bottom line, if you're scared to get a Prius, don't. Every time you get in you'll feel like you were forced to get it and won't enjoy the driving experience.

 

The purchase of any vehicle today is a major financial decision. I took nearly a year to make my decision. Most of the information I used came from PriusChat.

BOTTOM LINE:

Best decision I ever made. There will always be those who will disagree and create doubt. But haven't you noticed that those who have purchased a Prius are glad they did? That they would do it over again? That should speak volumes and it did for me. Now that I have one I am in that camp as well. This is simply the best car I have ever owned. If you are into safety just make sure you get the option for side curtain airbags. That makes a huge difference. I personally got option #8 with all the goodies but not everyone needs that.

Take my words on faith. They are honest words. You will not regret the purchase of a Prius. Period.

And this comes from someone who lives next door to you, in Wisconsin.

Oh, just one comment on gas mileage during winter. Yes, mileage will be reduced during cold months. What is not understood globally is that all internal combustion engines react the same way to temperature. Hence, a parallel reduction in mileage in all cars. But the Prius will still come out, if not the top, darn close to it.

Don't fear this experience. Embrace it. Have fun with it. If you can get all the options do so, you will not want to ever part with it.

Ok, am I happy with my Prius. DAMN RIGHT.

We all hope to hear of your decision to purchase one and become part of a growing group of people who want to do somthing about high gasoline prices.

And dont be afraid to make lots of phone calls around the midwest. I suspect you could find one within weeks depending on the effort you put into it.

Cheers

Almost forgot:

Here is the best chart on temperature vs Miles Per Gallon:

Tony's Temperature vs MPG chart

Scroll down to the bottom to see the chart.

Oh, and Tony is one of the moderators here on PriusChat and lives in northern Illinois, not far from me.

Enjoy

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bea2006 @ Apr 22 2006, 07:12 AM) [snapback]243581[/snapback]</div>

I would take that with a grain of salt. I'm 6'2" and can't physically fit in the Corrolla or Civic without feeling seriously cramped. You mentioned you are a family of 5. Not many families of 5 can fit in a Civic or Corrolla because their cabin volume is truly "compact".

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bea2006 @ Apr 22 2006, 07:12 AM) [snapback]243581[/snapback]</div>

This is partially true. I live in southern Minnesota and the gas engine does run more often to keep the interior warm when it's cold outside.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bea2006 @ Apr 22 2006, 07:12 AM) [snapback]243581[/snapback]</div>

If you're seriously worried about crash protection, then a Civic, Corrolla, and Prius are definitely not your best choices. Their lack of mass and small size is a big negative with impacts. To offset this, these small cars give you better accident avoidance with nimble handling.

You should also consider that the Prius can be purchased with VSC (Vehicle Skid Control). Honda does not offer its comparable VSA (Vehicle Stability Assist) on the Cvic product line. Stability control systems were ranked by some organization (I think it was the NHTSA or IIHS) as the biggest safety innovation since airbgas in terms of lives saved. Since you live in Minnesota like me, this is a huge safety item that should not be overlooked for driving in winter conditions.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bea2006 @ Apr 22 2006, 07:12 AM) [snapback]243581[/snapback]</div>

The 100 MPG Prius that will come out in 2008/2009 will affect the resale value of ALL hybrids. Why would it affect only the Prius? I see the hybrid market like the computer market. When something more advanced comes out, the value of ALL older products goes down.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bea2006 @ Apr 22 2006, 07:12 AM) [snapback]243581[/snapback]</div>

The Prius and Civic Hybird are both 100% manufactured in Japan with Japanese parts. They both should have outstanding reliability.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bea2006 @ Apr 22 2006, 07:12 AM) [snapback]243581[/snapback]</div>

Just don't drive with a lead foot and you'll be fine.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bea2006 @ Apr 22 2006, 07:12 AM) [snapback]243581[/snapback]</div>

This was the dealbreaker for our family of 4. We sat in both cars back to back (only 15 feet from each other) at the Twin Cities Auto Show this past March. The Civic Hybrid was way too small for us and the lack of folding rear seat was surprising. The Prius interior is far superior in terms of space and configurability. The hatchback configuration with folding rear seats means you can haul quite large items.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bea2006 @ Apr 22 2006, 08:12 AM) [snapback]243581[/snapback]</div>

consumer reports changed their minds, changed the article, and never published an official retraction notice. they determined over the lifetime of the car you end up saving $400 and the prius is a much more quaity vehicle. people who test drive these cars drive them hard. as you mentioned if you learn the technique you can do very well.

no car gets optimal mpg in the winter. there's the winter gas, the extended warmup period, heater use, etc. if you're talking 180 miles of commute, the car will definitely get warm and perform better. the short trips are the killer in winter. you'll see a big drop in any car.

would the kids be in the back seat? i don't know if they tested the back seats. take a good look at the safety test results for yourself, it sounds like someone else's opinion to me. for your kids you need to make your own opinion.

if the new prius gets 100 mpg, you can bet all hybrid values will be decreased, not just the prius. why would they say that the civic won't be affected by that? i look at this stuff like computers. you buy a top of the line one, then someone comes out with something better. you're still doing very well in an 06 prius. and i think they will still have good resale because not everyone can afford to buy a brand new car and people will look for used hybrids which will still do better than most cars. aside from that, a car isn't really a moneymaking kind of investment.

i'm starting to wonder if all this stuff you've heard is from your local honda dealer :huh:
in that case, i'll counter with "you can't go wrong with a toyota either"
my husband fixes them for a living. he gets to see firsthand all the things that can go wrong and the frequency at which they do so. he still will not buy anything but toyotas, mainly because the quality is there. he actually makes less money working for toyota because there aren't as many drastic failures.

which one was most comfortable for you and the kids? with a 1 year old you probably have to carry a lot of stuff around. there's a lot more storage space in the prius.

depending how you drive and etc. i've met civic hybrid owners who are getting 40 mpg and some who get 54. i've also met prius owners who get 40 and who get 55. overall i think the prius has the best potential for great mileage, it's how you take advantage of that potential. as you can see, there are some very careful civic hybrid drivers who get great mpg as well.

if you are willing to call around to different dealers you could get your hands on a prius much sooner than 3 months.


overall i think they're both great cars, but i won't hesitate to recommend the prius. for your concern about the safety tests, look at them yourself and don't let someone else make up your mind for you.

 

Hi Bea,

I bought a Prius early this year. I have been pleased with it, except for the highway handling - for which I installed a BT Tech stiffening plate to resolve the issue. There are many testimonials that this solution resolves this issue on PriusChat here.

Looking into the mechanicals of the car I believe the Prius would be the more reliable than the Honda Civic Hybrid. The Prius is a reconceptualisation of a car drive train using all the advantages a hybrid system can bring to the table, and a shedding of all the old baggage historical automotive design has. In the end Toyota came up with a way to use the hybrid components to provide the transmission variable ratio function, starter, and alternator. In my experience these are the big three of automotive repair. The transmission design in the Prius eliminates about 3/4 s of the parts in standard automatic transmission including all the ware items - clutches and bands. The Honda Civic Hybrid uses a variable pulley type mechanical continuously variable transmission. While it is said that materials advances make these more reilable, this has yet to be conclusively shown. Previous variable pulley CVT's have had a checkered reliabilty history - for example the Justy car. Prius cars have been well used for over 200 K miles in taxi fleets with good results.

Brake ware will be much reduced in a hybrid car, versus a VW TDI or Corolla. This is because with a hybrid allot of the slowing down is done by pumping electrons back into the battery, and this spares the ware surfaces on the brakes.


I guess my conclusion is that while crash safety is important, crash avoidance is equally important. And when your on a tight budget, a car that will not leave you on the side of a winter highway is just as important in avoiding a crash, or bodily injury. My opinion is the Prius is well above the other cars in this regard. One negative is that the Prius VSC (Vehicle Stabilty Control) system is not available without allot of the other bells and whistles that push up the price of the car artificially for the winter driving solution. If you have to drive on snow-covered curvy roads, VSC is a very good thing to have.

While traditional cars and TDI cars get better mileage on the highway than THEIR city economy, this is more a flaw of these cars city performance, than an indicator they are better than a Prius. Remember Diesel has 113 % the fuel energy of gasoline, and even more than gasoline/ethanol blends. Sooner or later Diesel will be so priced. This is especially probable when its made to the same enviormental quality as present gasoline. This is starting now and by the end of October 2006 will be complete. So, if the Diesel does not get 50 (Prius EPA Highway) times 1.13 , or 56.5 mpg EPA ratings, then its not a consumption economics match to the Prius over the next few years. A 2006 Jetta for example does not do this.

 

You say this is a "huge financial decision for us" and that mpg is very important to you.

First mpg is a foolish criteria - don't get me wrong I understand where you are coming from but I think you may be looking at it the wrong way. What you are really concerned about is minimizing your expenses which is a good decision! But mpg is only one part of that. I would think you would be better off buying a good used car that gets slightly worse mileage and gives you a lower cost of ownership. A Prius is not an inexpensive car ($22k-$30k). Why not find a good used car for say $15K - that difference pays for a lot of gasoline.

I bought my Prius a year ago, it was a 2002 that only had 7,200 miles on it. I got it for a steal at $16k. We use it for local driving but never take it on long highway trips. Why be in a small car on a long trip if you don't have too? We use our big safe vehicles for that.

Point is, look at all the options and don't buy a car just to get good mileage. There are hundreds of different cars as there are markets for all of them. If this is really a huge financial decision for you think long and hard and don't make an emotional choice for what I hear you saying is a financial one.

 

Hello. I owned the Honda Civic Hybrid 2003 model and drove it 24K miles. I sold it and bought an 05 Prius and offer the following:
1. The Prius consistently gets better milage than the Civic - 45 - 50 mpg on the Prius vs 38 to 42 on the Civic. I live on the Central Coast of CA, so the weather is cool, not cold as in MN. Your mileage will improve in the warmer months in any car, including the Prius. It has a far superior hybrid engine system than the Civic, which cannot even inch forward in traffic without starting the engine. That was wasteful and frustrating to me. The Prius shines in traffic and allows you to move quite a bit without firing up the engine.
2. The Prius is quieter, handles better, and has a much smoother ride. And with the optional electronics, a much better driving experience.
3. The Prius has lower emmissions so you can feel better about the effect you are having on the future of the planet. Since you have kids, that should matter to you. They are going to need the air you are using today for a much longer time.
4. You would be better off buying a regular Civic than the hybrid if saving money is your most important concern. The hybrid only gets a little better mileage than the standard Civic. It takes a lot of driving, over 100K miles by my estimate, to break even.

 

1. I would expect the Prius to do worse in in town driving but your main concern seems like it should be the 180 mile commuting. On the highway the Prius should do as well or better than the rest and far better than a Corolla. The in town mpg I expect will suffer from the cold weather. But my old Mercedes diesel lost about 1/3 of it's summer mpg also in winter local driving. So the TDI VW might not be that much better in in town driving. On the highway you should expect mpg to easily stay over 50 mpg. (or 45 if you drive 75 or 80 mph) Your in town driving could be more like 40 mpg, except in warm weather. This can be helped if you want to work at it with block heaters and radiator blocks. You don't say how short your local trips are. You need trips over 20 minutes at least to get good mpg so the car can warm up. If you regulary drive a mile or two, expect maybe 25 mpg. Should still overall beat the other cars you mention except the Honda Civic which might match the Prius.

OK maybe subtract another 5% for the ethanol you have out there. Probably more than where I drive.
But don't think that a VW diesel won't lose energy in the winter fuel too!

2 Covered above. Neither will any other car. Especially on the short trips.

3. Every car has some crash weaknesses. The Honda would not be a bad choice if you like it. But I could not stand a Honda myself for many of the reasons already cited here. Lack of a fold down rear seat being a major one, and the smaller size.

4. I agree you should buy a 2009 Prius right now today! But otherwise any effect it has will be on all cars not just the current Prius.

5. Not so true according to what I hear and read. The Honda system is cheaper to build but clearly will require more repairs. But could be cheaper to fix if something major breaks due to the cheaper components.

6. You don't need to learn much if you don't want to but if you do, expect maybe 5 more mpg. Just drive sensibly as for any car. No racing to lights and jamming on the brakes ever, or accelerating down hills you could coast down.

7. OK, so maybe this balances out. Both are good choices.

8. Like I said I don't like the drive system in the Honda. They are not at all the same. But for mpg with your commuting I expect both would do well. The Prius should do better in summer for the local driving maybe. Would do so for sure with heavy AC use, but I'm thinking you don't need AC much out there.

9. I waited a year for my Prius. I could have got a Honda off the lot too. I was easily able to rule out the Honda due to size, cargo space, and the synnergy drive only on the Prius. Plus the smartkey system!

TDI VW I'd have considered if I could, but I've owned 3 diesel cars. Now I am glad to be rid of the gelled fuel hassles in the winter and no more worries about if it will start!

10. Just remember to get a package with the side air bags if you get a Prius. I'd recommend the VSC also if you are concerned about safety! With this you might more than compensate for the head restraint weakness.

 

Bea,

Right off the bat, I love my 2005 Prius, but have to admit that I gave a very serious look to the Volkswagen TDI vehicles before deciding on the Prius. Mileage was certainly comparable on both vehicles, but here is some food for thought:

In cold climates, diesel engines tend to take longer to warm up, longer to start, and diesel fuel is much more prone to freezing in the tank than gasoline is. I had a VW Rabbit Diesel back in Michigan in the early 80's, and frozen diesel was a major problem in the winter. You pretty much had to have a block heater and plug the car in at night, or keep it in a garage. The Prius doesn't seem to have that issue (I still live in a cold, snowy climate!).

I'm not impressed at how the Prius does in snow. The vehicle stability control tends to shut off power to the wheels on low-traction uphill climbs, right when I need it most. Chains help, but they are a pain to put on. I might try studded snow tires next winter, but this year, my wife and I just shared our old Jeep Grand Cherokee on snowy days. Will Honda or VW do better? Good question. I would suggest checking any vehicle with traction control, and seeing if it can be turned off manually when needed.

Diesel engines take a pounding, and tend to last longer than regular engines. There is a technical reason for this, but I don't know exactly what that is. If you are serious about a long commute every day, the VW might be a better buy.

On the down side, I've heard bad things about having to let turbo diesels calm down. You can't drive 60mph into your driveway and just turn them off... there is something about needing to let the turbine spin down at idle. This affected the Audis back a few years ago, but I'm not sure about the current VWs... good question to ask, though.

A major reason I bought a Prius is the techie-geek factor... the Prius has more gadgets available (NAV, bluetooth phone, etc.), and that has a lot of personal appeal. If you'll never use the bluetooth phone and the nav, there isn't much sense paying for them. VW doesn't really even have those as an option (at least not on the 2005 models I looked at). This is a personal decision, though, so your level of geek-necessity may vary!

As for the other points, the Prius seems very safe to me, but is probably no more or less safe than the VW or the Honda. The upper level Prius models come with side curtain airbags, and those are supposed to make a good overall improvement in safety.

Honda makes great vehicles, but I test drove one of their hybrids out of curiousity last year... wasn't impressed with the pickup or feel. I've heard that the Honda hybrid engine is actually the old Toyota hybrid engine from the first generation Prius... Honda bought the rights to use it from Toyota. If this is true, it would mean that Toyota will always be a step ahead of Honda. A regular gasoline engine Honda Civic is a great car by any standards.

Good luck with the decision, and let us know what you choose... this question does occasionally come up!

Dan

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bea2006 @ Apr 22 2006, 05:12 AM) [snapback]243581[/snapback]</div>

Did you ever wonder why that is so?

The bottom line, though, is that you cannot go wrong buying either car.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(danoday @ Apr 22 2006, 12:07 PM) [snapback]243677[/snapback]</div>

Toyota has traction control called TRAC and stability control called VSC. TRAC pulsates the brakes on wheels that are exceeding the traction capability of the tire and even cuts engine power too. Many folks find this annoying.

VSC on the other hand is intended for skids. If you take a corner too fast and the car starts going sideways, VSC will apply the brakes to individual wheels to pull you back in line. This technology is truly fanatastic and can save your butt before you get into serious trouble.

The Prius and Civic will be OK at best in the snow. Their light curbweight, short wheelbase, and low ground clearance really limit their stability and handling in snowy conditions. It doesn't help that these cars come with low rolling resistance tires that are awful for snow.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(danoday @ Apr 22 2006, 12:07 PM) [snapback]243677[/snapback]</div>

You're confusing Honda with Ford. Ford licensed the 1st generation HSD technology from Toyota to use in the Ford Escape Hybrid. Honda and Toyota are the only players in the market that develop their own Hybrid technology.

 

Bea,

I do not have anything else to add to what others have said only that my wife and I were so happy with our first Prius we got a second one. I get around 51 mpg. I was getting around 54 but a long winter road trip of 4000 miles killed my fuel economy. I attribute it more towards the mandatory winter fuel. My wife makes all the short trips and gets around 49 mpg.

 

I really doubt they will get significantly better highway MPG than a Prius unless you are a real lead-footed driver. My worst highway mileage in the summer is about 51-52mpg, and that's usually at about 5mph over the speed limit. Around town driving in the spring/summer I will easily get 57-59, 60-62 if I try real hard (which is annoying, as I think at that point, you drop below the "normal" driving concept). Oh yeah, all my mpg expressions are PER TANK!

Keep in mind too, this is usually just me, one person, I'm not sure how many mpg's you'll lose if you cram your Prius with husband and kids, thereby weighing it down.

Now, if you want to save even more, consider a one or two year old Prius Toyota certified pre-owned. I got my '04 stock (no nav. or 6 speaker stereo) with 12K on the clock for 21.5K, whereas most were paying 25-26 for new... I traded in a big F150 gas guzzler, and started saving 2-300 per month on gas the second I bought the Prius, so it also depends upon where you're coming from.

It will drop. In the winter, up here in New England, I'll get about 45-47 WITH the heat blasting set to 80F. Again, with normal driving.

I can't answer this, as in my case, it's a non-issue.

I'm not quite sure about this. I think the Prius is STILL a better hybrid than the Honda. As far as I know, you can't do "electric only" runs on the Civic.

You can't go wrong with EITHER in terms of reliability.

It isn't that much of a change at all. However, if you're the type of driver that mashes the gas pedal whenever the light turns green, and have a tendency to pass cars on the highway at 80mph all the time, then sure, it's going to be change, but it's really, REALLY easy to get into the "groove" with that big MFD staring at you showing you, in essence, how well you're doing. Trust me, it will become a sick fascination when you get the hang of it!

One of the main reasons I chose the Prius is because if feels spacious inside, unlike any other econobox. I like space, I'm a big guy, and prior to the Prius, drove a very big and roomy pick up. I hate being crammed, and I don't really feel that way in the Prius. Then again, I've never been in a Honda Hybrid, but since it's the same as the Civic, for which I have been in, I prefer the roominess of the Prius...

Can't comment, haven't been in, or gotten the chance to play around with a Honda Civic Hybrid.

Depends on where you are, that can be a bitch. I lucked out and got mine one year used last year before gas prices shot up. At the time, there were maybe 3 or 4 used ones, and 3 or 4 new ones on their lot, not anymore... I'd echo what others have said, call around and see who has what.

No prob, that's what we're here for!

...and yeah, I really doubt fuel prices are going to get better anytime soon... :angry:

I have to second danoday on this. It really ticked me off in the snow, when on slight slushy inclines, as soon as the computer says you've lost traction, it starts cutting power (imagine pushing the gas pedal down, and your wheels spin LESS and LESS until the pedal is floored and the wheels aren't moving....lol). You CANNOT use wheelspin to move you around. IMO, it's downright dangerous. I got into a few hairy situations where an intersection was on an incline, and half way up, friggin' traction control kicks in, and the wheels just STOP spinning, with cars lined up behind me, and I'm half way into the road and oncoming traffic getting closer. :angry: :angry: :angry:

I do admit that I was/am using stock tires. I've read on here changing to proper winter tires helps A LOT, and that it might be the "programming" on the '04 models. I'm way too lazy change tires, and won't really believe it until I actually do it.

So, in summary, I would say exercise particular caution in the snow...