http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic...UTO01/703200368 I think that I'm starting to see how GM thinks and that's somewhat disturbing. Here's my theory: GM thinks in terms of price alone. So if a Prius costs $23,000 then if you come out with a mild hybrid that costs $22,000 then, voila, you're competing against the Prius. Wow, uh, well, the Aura gets 28 mpg city and 35 mpg highway compared to 55 mpg with a Prius. So, it compares to the Prius because it costs about the same and qualifies as a hybrid? I'd help out GM in its quest to stay in business but, oh hey, with Iranian issues making gasoline prices do the twist, I just can't see the Aura as being a competitor to the Prius when the Aura gets 20 miles less per gallon. C'mon. But there's GM's idea of competition to the Prius in a nutshell.
I am missing something. This is what is quoted in the article: If you look at autos.yahoo.com, you will notice that the MSRP of the prius is $22,175. That is lower than the Aura.....Wth, someone doesnt know math very well?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(nark @ Apr 4 2007, 12:26 AM) [snapback]417502[/snapback]</div> The MSRP on a Prius is $22795 per Edmunds if you include the $620 destination charge. Per Edmunds, the Aura Hybrid MSRP $22695 with $650 destination charge. The MSRP $22795 on a Prius is a bit misleading as well as I don't think anyone can buy a Prius w/no package. When I got mine, the lowest package for my region was #3 and packageless was impossible.
Well, technically they're right. I mean the Washington Generals 'compete' against the Harlem Globetrotters all the time right?
I looked at the specs of the Aura, and it's barely a hybrid. The electric motor on it seems to add almost nothing to the drive or the fuel economy. It looks to me like this is a marketing gimmick that appeared about 2 years too late.
The term "mild hybrid" actually means: It's not really a hybrid but we get to call it that. The difference between GM and an automaker is like the difference between a poisoner and a French chef.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(gippah @ Apr 4 2007, 10:10 AM) [snapback]417546[/snapback]</div> Yeah and that's the heartbreaking thing about wanting to buy American but not having a real alternative to a Prius. If GM actually turned out a Saturn that was even almost as good and equivalent to a Prius, I'd give it a real hard look but just reading the article told me all that I needed. What a shame.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Apr 4 2007, 09:06 AM) [snapback]417624[/snapback]</div> :lol: Although, I will admit it will be an alternative for those who want a Camry Hybrid but don't want a Japanese car or want to buy "American"
Ford never had a better idea, and neither do the rest of the American made cars! I lived in Michigan for 2 years and spouse had a Toyota Corona. (They don't make them anymore.) But the company spouse worked for at that time told spouse to go buy American and gave spouse a car expense account for it. I was ticked because we had to sell the Corona. Also found out, if some dealers were open on weekends, the other dealers would drive by and throw rocks through the showroom windows. That tells you how strong the union is up there. The hours of most showrooms and dealers were from 9 a.m. to 5 p.m. and that's when you had to buy your car. No evening nor weekend hours. That .....! for the little guy! Foreign cars in Michigan are not looked upon favorably. They think they had the upper hand but most Americans don't think that way any more. Especially when they are paying buttloads of money for pensions, vacations, unions, bonuses, whatever! I think American car manufacturers are too big for their britches! Me, I am buying foreign next time; but I am gonna make sure it's a good car, or nobody gets my money!
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Apr 4 2007, 09:06 AM) [snapback]417624[/snapback]</div> I wouldn't slam GM THAT much for having mild hybrids. Toyota had a Crown mild hybrid (http://www.toyota.co.jp/en/environmental_rep/03/kaihatu06.html and many other pages). I also remember seeing a Toyota Century mild hybrid while I was in Japan.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(cwerdna @ Apr 6 2007, 12:25 AM) [snapback]418670[/snapback]</div> I don't think it's the mild hybrid themselves that he's slamming, but the fact that GM is using that label (which I can only assume he's referring to the Silverado and not the new GreenLines)
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tideland Prius @ Apr 6 2007, 01:51 AM) [snapback]418688[/snapback]</div> Actually, I just hate them for killing public transportation when I was a kid in L.A., and for killing the electric car in the 1990's. I'd change my mind if they'd build a real electric car (not the Volt, which would be a hybrid, according to its description, if it actually existed). I remember the trolly cars. Electric train cars that ran on rails and were powered by ugly overhead wires, but they were smooth and quiet. Then there were trollybusses, which ran on tires, but were still electric, from overhead lines. Then GM bought them out and dismantled them and left LA with a bus system where you could wait an hour for a transfer and a trip across town could take three or four hours when there was no traffic, due to the poor schedules and long waits at transfer points. :angry:
Wasn't the Silverado 'hybrid' also "mild"? From what I could tell, all it did was turn off the motor at stop lights.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(adam1991 @ Apr 7 2007, 06:59 PM) [snapback]419607[/snapback]</div> ZERO percent improvement on the highway. That's not big. Auto-Start does basically nothing for people that cruise a lot and do everything they can to avoid stoplights. At least with "assist" hybrids, there is more... but not much from some designs, like smog-related emission reduction.
Let's face it, the BIGGEST improvements with hybrids are in the stop and go city driving. A well designed engine without hybrid technology can get what a Prius does on the highway. So a big V8 that does nothing but stop the engine at traffic lights and restart it, and give some mild kick to initial acceleration, will be hugely meaningful in city driving--especially given how much gas that thing uses just sitting at idle. Percentage wise, it's a very, very significant improvement. Hybrid cop cars would be a great way to go, too, given how much time they spend at idle.
When does auto-stop engage? There is obviously a time and/or speed requirement. What about Heater & A/C use?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(adam1991 @ Apr 7 2007, 06:10 PM) [snapback]419635[/snapback]</div> Yeah, that pretty much sums it up. I mean, I still get better mileage on the hwy than our Camry 4 cylinder but it's very close to the hwy mileage of a Yaris. Close but still better. Not to mention lower emissions. But given that I almost always drive in the city, it works for me.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(adam1991 @ Apr 7 2007, 06:10 PM) [snapback]419635[/snapback]</div> I beg to differ. While it's true that real hybrids (HSD and IMA) shine their best in the city, this has almost nothing to do with auto-stop. It has to do with the way a real hybrid is able to use a smaller ICE (and in the case of HSD, a more-efficient low-torque ICE) which is much better matched to the steady-state power demand of the car, since the motor can supply the torque needed for acceleration. Added to that, the fact that HSD (though not IMA) can run the ICE always at a relatively optimal RPM, greatly increasing efficiency over a car with a conventional transmission, which is often operating well outside its optimal RPM, especially when starting from a stand-still. And while you could build a conventional car to get the Prius's 50 mpg on the highway, it would not have the performance of the Prius. Hey, if you're willing to settle for a one-seater that takes sixty seconds to go from zero to sixty mph, you could probably get 100 mpg.
