Republican '08 Presidential straw poll

You left George Allen out of your list pf possible choices. Not that I'd ever vote for him, but he is the darling of the fringe right wing of the Republican party.

 

Hmmm ... I think there may be some ringers voting in this one.

McCain and Rudy Guilianni in the lead? Rudy would have a hard time winning the primaries with this more liberal social views (pro-choice, pro gay rights, etc.), and McCain has angered the same activists that dominate the primaries with his stands over the years.

Condi is the one that would have the best chance of both winning the primaries, and then also winning the White House, especially if her opponent is Senator Clinton.

 

OOOOh I so look forward to rice and clinton going head to head.

 

Condi all the way. I loved how she would not let the 911 commision democrats get away with a slanted question.

 

I voted Other. You said Independents could vote here, and that's me. An independent.

Okay. I vote for Marvin Kitman. Kitman ran for the Republican nomination in 1964, on a platform to bring the Republican Party back to 1864 and fulfill the unfulfilled promises of Abraham Lincoln. The Republican Party was the party of abolition. It was (much) later hijacked by lunatics masquerading as Christian fundamentalists, promoting everything Jesus railed against. We need to get the republican Party back to the principles of Lincoln, and Marvin Kitman (assuming he's still alive 41 years after his run for the nomination) is the man to do it.

 

Rice vs. H. Clinton? Hmmm. It would be interesting to see if a woman could screw up the country as bad as the men have consistently done up until now.

Would mainstream Republicans be willing to set aside their sexism and their racism and vote for Rice? She's certainly evil enough to be the Republican standard-bearer, and she is as intelligent as the incumbent is stupid, which is to say extremely. But she'd have an uphill battle to get the nomination, and a lot of her own party would bolt, just because of her race and her gender.

 

I obviously disagree with your blanket statement about Republicans being sexist and racist ... remember that Condi is a Republican because her family is ... the Democrats wouldn't allow blacks in the party when they went to register. Democrats always want to paint the party as sexist and racist, and usually point to organizations run by and for women (Concerned Women of America) or racists in the south (who are more likely to be Democrats than they are to be Republican.)

Perceptions aside, I think it will be easier for a conservative black woman republican to win the Presidency than a liberal black man like Mfume.

 

Pardon me. I did not mean to make a blanket accusation against all republicans. However, I do believe that a sufficiently large minority of the Republican base is both sexist and racist to spoil the election for Rice, were she somehow to get the nomination; though I think the same voters would deny her the nomination in the first place.

Granted that the Democrats are nearly as bad. That's why I am neither Republican or Democrat. Historically the racists in the South were Democrats (the Democratic Party was formed as an alliance between northern liberals and southern conservatives.) However, in recent decades the South (and its racists) have moved over to the Republican Party, in response to vaguely-concealed racist rhetoric from the so-called Christian Right which has stolen the Republican Party from the old-line conservatives.

This entire country is deeply racist and I believe a highly-qualified Black candidate would lose to an unqualified White one. There's also a lot of subliminal sexism: an unfounded fear that a woman, merely because of her sex, would be too weak to make hard choices. Rice probably would suffer less from that than Clinton, because of her track record.

I doubt we will have the opportunity to choose between them, though, because I don't think either one will make her respective party's ballot.

 

I see a George Allen - Mark Warner faceoff

 

I voted for George Pataki with John McCain, Rudy Giuliani, and Condoleeza Rice coming in a close tie for second. I would vote for almost anyone over Hillary, including her husband again. I will never believe that when she uttered the "great right-wing conspiracy" that she wasn't in the know about Bill's little problem with Monica.

 

You might want to read up on the Civil War ... the Democrats were on the wrong side of that little disagreement, and it cost them the black vote until FDR came along in the 1940's.

I'll have to respectfully disagree. I don't think America is racist. There are racists, to be sure, but we have made huge progress in the area of human rights and we should be glad for that. We should acknowledge our gains, and work toward a better tomorrow, rather than engaging in self-flaggellation like our Puritan forebears.

 

We have indeed made a lot of progress. But we are still deeply racist. A very large segment of the population (enough to "spoil" the election for a qualified candidate) still holds racial stereotypes. People of color are still routinely pulled over by the cops without reason. People of color are still vastly under-represented in positions of authority in both government and private industry. Minority school districts are still vastly under-funded. And a person of color applying for a job in most corporations needs to be far more qualified than a competing white person in order to get the job. There are glowing exceptions, and that represents tremendous progress. But we remain a profoundly color-divided country afflicted with racial prejudice at the deepest level of our national soul.

 

Coni Rice won't have a shot at the Presidency for the unfortunate reason that she is not married, and has no children. Kind of hard to talk about family values when you don't have a significant other or children.

It's a sad reality, but such trivialities like the candidate's personal situation play a huge role.

That being said, I wouldn't want to see Condi be the Republican nominee. I think McCain is due for a nomination, and I think it would seriously change the tenor of politics for the better if he were to get all the way, though I am a Democrat and do not agree with him on a lot of issues.

Oh... and in terms of liberal black men, watch Barack Obama, Sen-IL.

 

Again, we'll simply have to disagree. A country where the black middle class is growing as fast as ours, a country that quickly condemns to death three racists who killed an innocent black man by dragging him to his death behind their pick up truck, a country where the highest paid entertainers are often black, a country where not a single law or ruling can be considered racist is not "deeply racist". There are individuals who are racists, but this country is not.

I can tell you as a manager hiring people that I don't care about gender or color. I care about competence. I can't afford to pass up a qualified applicant because they are black ... but I wish my competitors would. That would mean a bigger pool of talent for me to draw from. But alas, they are also well staffed with women and minorities. Most of my employees work in close proximity to each other, and are truly a mixed group of people, representing every minority you can think of. They range in age from 22 to 60. In the entire group of 20 of them, there isn't a problem with race or prejudice ... including against the Islamic Afghani refugee, even right after 9/11. The biggest problem we have is the varying taste in music. The only thing they have in common is that they are Americans. And that is enough.

As long as we keep the bar low, and reassure ourselves that we are "deeply racist", we keep the excuses going for those few malcontents that engage in hate activities. "What do you expect?", we nod in agreement, "This is, after all, a deeply racist country. We simply can't do any better."

There is more "black on white" crime in this country than the other way around. By far. Take a look at the UCR in your local library, and look for the section on hate crimes, crimes where gender of perp and victim are known, and you'll see that this is not a racist country. There is still racism and every other form of hate within the hearts of men, but America is not racist.

 

Amen.

 

John McCain is just a liberal in Republican clothing. He'll never get the republican nomination.

 

I think you're right. McCain and Giuliani are much too moderate to make it through the Republican primaries, where the cultural conservatives hold so much sway. The modern primary system pretty much eliminates the possibility of a "brokered" convention where such a man might be drafted to be the nominee

Pataki might make it. Certainly Newt could come through the primaries, but he is a polarizing figure for a general election. Someone mentioned Obama as an up and comer for the liberals in response to Condi (I suppose we always need to segment these candidates by color and creed ... so be it ... but Obama is a great candidate for the Dems, but I think in a Veep slot). A possible VP nominee for the Republicans could be JC Watts or the junior Senator from PA, Santorium. Both are well liked by the cultural conservatives in the party. I don't think either has the "gravitas" to make it through the primaries as a Presidential nominee.

I think Jeb has to sit this one out, but has a shot next time if there's a Dem elected president ... especially if the Dem proves to be unpopular. I don't think America would vote for Jeb Bush to succeed G. Bush ... I like them both, but Americans are uncomfortable with dynasties.

 

Perhaps that is why I could vote for him in the general election even if I couldn't in the primaries. (And yes I did respect the voluntary ban on non republicans voting in this poll). I also have to say despite my doubts about Condi Rice as Secretary of State, she has not been as bad as I had expected. (read faint praise)