recouping additional cost for hybrids

I have nothing to "pay off". My car has already paid for itself.

I paid $20,000 for my 1996 Saturn SC2 coupe. When I went looking for a replacement in April of 2005 I decided to pay $20,000 for my new car, whatever it might be. That's what I paid for my Prius. The whole hybrid premium hype is just that to me. People buy the car they can afford. You don't save money buying a Lexus. For that matter, you don't save money buying any new car. You don't save money buying a car at all...you pay for it. No car "pays you back". They only cost more or less than your previous car to run and maintain.

So far my car has cost me half of what my previous car did. I pay half for gas, I change the oil less frequently and the maintenance is much less. And the interest rate on my car loan is less than half of what it was for the Saturn as well. I expect this car could go 20 years as opposed to the 10 I normally keep a car.

But...I'll probably trade it in for a 2009 when they come out.

 

I'm really getting tired of reporting errors.

The other day, a reporter responded back to my polite private email pointing out that Prius doesn't use a CONE & BELT type of CVT. He said a correction would be printed after his verification was complete. It took me only 10 minutes to find 3 different reference materials on Toyota's own website confirming the PLANETARY type was used instead. Why couldn't he have done that? What's with the delay?

Today, I read that article stating the EPA estimates for Prius are 51 MPG city and 49 MPG highway. That isn't even remotely close to being correct. How can they make that gross of an error? Doesn't anyone confirm facts anymore?

Of course, all of the "pay off" articles (the latest hype) are misleading anyway. I haven't seen a single one of them report based on a standard duration. Each is unique to each vehicle. How is that helpful? Wouldn't it make a whole lot more sense to quote numbers with respect to a standard instead? Telling people how much money they would be behind or ahead after 160,000 miles is far too logical, like laboratory tests. And it puts Prius in a very favorable position. They say it only takes 2.1 years to break even. That calculates to just 31,500 miles. Imagine what those additional miles work out to. That's lots more $$$ never mentioned.

 

Since there is no conventional Prius, how would you even determine the "hybrid premium"? I see comparisons to a Corolla lots of times, and with no disrespect to Corolla owners, it's like comparing apples to oranges. For what I paid for the Prius, I'd be hard pressed to find an equivalently equipped conventionally powered car. I was not concerned about any payback time just like I'm not conerned about how many paper maps I could have bought for the price of the NAV system. I bought the Prius for the features and to support the development of new technology.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(8AA @ Sep 9 2006, 08:21 PM) [snapback]317146[/snapback]</div>

I can think of many comparable cars. The all cost over 30,000 so the great hybrid premium is really a substantial discount.

 

I bought the car for a multitude of reasons and saving cash at the pump to pay it off wasnt one of them. I bout it because I like it. Whne are people going to figure out that we actually enjoy our cars and it is not some eco-burden on us?

 

I am currently helping a friend shop for a car. She is not a hatchback type of person so we are hoping to test a Hy Cam.

There is a difference here and there with packages and choosing Hybrid is no different than choosing ANY OPTION!

A friend just bought a Nissan Maxima for "around" 30,000, same as the HyCam all dressed up (well except for the better gas mileage and low maintenance costs). He has bad credit so he has an 8 year loan and is paying just under $600 a month for it! When do you think his Maxima will pay for itself?!?

 

AFAICT, the media reports that overestimate Prius' total cost of ownership all greatly overestimate depreciation during 5 yrs initial use. The Intellichoice web site stands out as being the only one to do this better, and as a result reported something in the mid-20's cents per mile. Sorry I do not have that link handy but it was very easy to find via google.

 

I guess someone needs to put together a press kit for PriusChat and start sending it out to all the lazy "reporters" who can't be bothered to do some very basic fact-checking.

On the bright side, hybrid cars are not receiving any special treatment by the press. Pretty much everything out there is under-researched and over-editorialized.

 

It's amazing how people pick up on things that are a little different, like buying a hybrid, and question the justification.
I eat very healthy. We grow our own organic vegetables and fruits, raise goats for the milk and eat eggs from our own chickens. I exercise and take supplements. When we go to restaurants I order off the menu to get something healthy. I was in the business world for 35 years and traveled a lot. Fellow workers were very familar with my lifestyle and would often question my "payback". I ate and exercised the way I did because I wanted to, I liked the taste of real food, I enjoyed growing it myself, exercise gives me a rush. I made the choice to be healthy because I wanted to, not because I was guaranteed 6.4 extra years on this planet.
I feel the same way about my prius. If the mileage somehow dropped to 25mpg do you think I would trade it in? It's a great car for a lot of reasons, mileage and "payback" are just a couple. I guess being a pioneer has some scrunity.

 

<_< Seems I recall that about 1½ years back a prominent CBS reporter lost his high-profile 7-figure job as an anchor because of faulty reporting. Seems the 'facts' weren't 'facts' at all and had not been verified thus embarassing CBS greatly.

IF, indeed, recouping the additional cost of a hybrid was a factor, then many elements would necessarily be considered in the "equation." [1] Extra cost of purchase compared to an equivalent gasoline-only vehicle; [2] Loss of interest on those dollars or additional interest on the note with increased purchase price.; [3] Fuel cost savings (predicting the changing cost of fuel); [4] Maintenance savings (longer service cycles); [5] Depreciated value of the hybrid (not much depreciation so far); [6] Possible lower insurance costs (almost impossible car to steal); [7] Parking Meter savings in some cities; [8] IRS tax deductions and credits; [9] ... etc. ...

Then, how can you quantify the value of significantly reduced pollution?

***SIGH*** Seems some reporters are categlrically lazy, failing to thoroughly research their writings and willing to publish speculation as fact.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tomdeimos @ Sep 9 2006, 09:28 PM) [snapback]317196[/snapback]</div>

The only thing that makes the Prius comparable to many $30K cars, in my opininon, is the size. It's a pretty roomy car. But comfort and performancewise, it is comparable to numerous cars under $20K. Lots of plain plastic, average handling, average (if not below average) seat comfort, etc. My wife rode in back last night and complained the head rest only had two positions. If it was not for the high tech propulsion, I think the Prius would be (should be) a pretty inexpensive car.

The guys doing the reported study compared the Prius to a 4 cylineder Camry and subtracted the tax credit to determine the "premium" - no telling if that is accurate.

On the other hand, if you look at cars like the Civic that have both versions, you see a difference of $3-4K.

Edited to correct a couple of glaring typos... I do a lot of casual forum posting using my Palm Treo so typos are pretty common with that little QWERTY keyboard. I don't proof very carefully in casual forums but I was dealing with a dead battery today when I finished this post so I couldn't have even skimmed for errors if I wanted to.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(8AA @ Sep 9 2006, 06:21 PM) [snapback]317146[/snapback]</div>

I couldn't have said it better. I bought the car for the car, not to save money; although saving money is a great benefit as well.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Curtis SAC @ Sep 12 2006, 04:37 PM) [snapback]318560[/snapback]</div>

Sorry I've never seen one. I've been in many cars in the 40,000 price range and found them far less comfortable and less roomy than a Prius. They were quieter and that was about it. Some had a better ride, but others didn't. As for a Camry I've always found them uncomfortable and ugly.

The only expensive cars I do like are terrible in reliability, and that would be something like a Jaguar. My last car was a Mercedes and was junk in every way compared to a Priius.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(8AA @ Sep 9 2006, 07:21 PM) [snapback]317146[/snapback]</div>

I let other people buy hybrids over the last few years just to see if they were "really gonna stick" or just be a passing car fad. Didn't take long to see that they were working out but I wasn't going to invest money in a car just for the technology. The technology had to offer me something that I could measure.

With the amount of drving I do now, it pencils out fine. For me, the "premium" will be recovered in just over a year by gas savings alone. (if gas get down to the $2 area it might take closer to 2 years, but I can live with that).

Another big selling point of the Prius and Civic was HOV lane access. I am sure that I saved 1 hour and 15 fifteen minutes in travel time just today by using the HOV lanes in the bay area. While my average MPG has fallen off just a tad since I got my stickers, I am getting 2 to 3 hours of time back every week. Using that time for work could be worth a several thousands of dollars to me each year. Using that time with my 2 year old daughter in the evening... priceless.

 

How long before added hybrid cost is worth it?

As soon as I sat down in the car, put on the seat belt, pushed the power button, moved the joy stick to “Dâ€, and drove my Prius off the dealer's lot . . . that's how long it took before it was worth it.

Waiting 203 days for the car was also an added 'cost', but that too instantaneously evaporated when the front tires first made contact with the public street.

Will the Prius turn out to be less expensive to operate than any other car? Probably not.
But then, I don't want to drive any other car.

The current iteration of the Prius is everything I want or need in ANY car that is available today.

If I could afford to buy any car . . . would I drive a Lamborghini or any of its ilk? NO.
I can obviously afford a car less expensive than the Prius. Would I have been as happy with my car purchase going that route? NO!

The Prius IS the perfect car for me today. Someday there will be the perfect ZEV electric or fuel cell car for me. But today, it's the Prius. B)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Sep 9 2006, 04:16 PM) [snapback]317112[/snapback]</div>

Very well said. You buy the car you want, it performs the way you expect, maybe even better. I was never asked about payback time on the $26,000 Subaru I bought 10 years ago, why should the $26,000 Prius be any different?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Sep 9 2006, 04:16 PM) [snapback]317112[/snapback]</div>

Very well said. You buy the car you want, it performs the way you expect, maybe even better. I was never asked about payback time on the $26,000 Subaru I bought 10 years ago, why should the $26,000 Prius be any different? The Subaru barely gets 20 mpg, the Prius 50, that's what I call payback.

 

Why do people ask this question only about hybrids? When I was asked this question about my Prius, my response was, "what's the "payback time" for a 30k Volvo, or worse, a Hummer?" Answer: there is none. You don't get any fuel payback from a conventional car. None of the features on a Volvo save you money over time so stop picking on the Prius.
Bob

 

I have two answers to this premium "controversy".

What are you doing with your car that makes you money?

How much will it cost to go get all that pollution and put it back where it came from?