Rare earth elements used by Prius to be in short supply

Wow.... Rare earth metals are kind of interesting. I wish Nat Geo would do a show on 'em.

[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rare_earth_element]Rare earth element - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

 

A common misconception is that the term "rare" in this name is because the material in uncommon. In fact these ores are fairly common in the Earth's crust, although they are not mined in many locations. The "rare" designation came from when they were first discovered, and in that location the ore was indeed rare.

Tom

 

I dispute the claim that the Prius is gobbling up all the REE's. The semiconductor industry is a large consumer of REE's, mostly for trinkety consumer crap

 

You know, about 35 years ago we were "going to run out of titanium". There were no titanium mines, aircraft were going to use tons of the stuff. At the turn of the 18th century we were "going to run out of coal". Just a few years ago we were "going to run out of oil soon".

I wonder if we will ever learn. If things get too expensive (which is what happens, rather than it becoming unavailable) we adapt, and switch to something else. Or we find different ways to get it, such as more efficient mines, better prospecting, etc.

But when you run a news outfit you need stories, so I suppose that is as good a story as any other.

 

We're revisiting this topic again? It seems like this topic resurfaces in the news every year, and then disappears for about twelve months.

Something to consider: If everyone who already owns a hybrid recycles the battery when they are done with it, then new batteries (mined from the earth) will only be needed for the portion of the population that does not already have a battery. Once SUVs are off of the road and everyone is driving EV Apteras (or the Toyota future equivalent) with SUPERB regen braking and SUPERB aerodynamics and drivetrain efficiency, the size of the battery will not need to be as large as the battery we need today, and we should have enough batteries to go around for everyone.

Here's an interesting question to ponder: If you add up all of the hybrid car batteries that exist today, and if you add up all of the cell phone batteries that exist today, which has more mass? Since hybrid cars do not need 12V lead-acid batteries, the recycled material from those batteries will become available, and I'm sure "scientists" will develop a new technology to harness that resource.

Would a "rechargeable fuel cell" work in a car (you still plug it in and charge it with electricity; the fuel cell only replaces the rechargeable battery) ?

 

The rare earth elements are in the motor permanent magnets I think.

 

I heard there's a whole bunch on the moon.

I just went back and read the article. I see what you are saying about the elements in the permanent magnets. Hmmm. I hope that doesn't become a problem. I used to build remote control cars when I was young, and I would disassemble the motors and clean them and observe how they work. Back then, I had always thought the permanent magnets were abundant in the earth's crust. I never really thought about the magnets being synthesized from metals. Hmmm.

 

Well, 35 years ago ... rare earth had a different meaning:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-cZiu8osE8&feature=related]YouTube - Rare Earth with Peter Rivera - I Just Want To Celebrate[/ame]


Just dated myself I suppose

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Just FYI - while neodymium magnets are often used in high power motors because of their strength, it's not required to do so. I personally do not know if it's used in the Prius or not - can anyone confirm? Neodymium is a rare earth metal - you see a lot of them used in hard drives.

I do know that the Tesla, for example (or anything else that uses an AC induction motor) does not typically use neodymium. So there is an alternative.

Frankly, I think this is a case where it's just someone looking to make a bunch of noise to scare people away from hybrids. There are plenty of alternatives to the rare earth materials that may be used in current hybrids - the drawback is that currently those alternatives would be more expensive to use than the rare earth metals.

That said, there is a great article on rare earth metals on The Oil Drum:
The Oil Drum: Europe | Metal Minerals Scarcity and the Elements of Hope

 

If that article is correct, at current prices, a Prius uses about $120 of rare earths.

Per the article, a Prius has 1 kg of neodymium in the magnets. Current price looks like $20/kg.

Neodymium metal prices

Plus 10 kg of lanthanum in the battery. Current price of about $10/kg.

Lanthanum metal prices

Whereas nickel is about $8/lb, which works out to about $18/kg. So the 30 lbs of nickel in the battery currently costs maybe $250.

Kitco - Spot Nickel Historical Charts and Graphs - Nickel charts - Industrial metals

If you want rare, the platinum for the catalytic converter is three orders of magnitude more expensive, at about $33,000 a kg (about $1250 per troy ounce these days, roughly 12 troy ounces in your standard pound.)

A typical catalytic converter might use 5(?) grams of platinum. If I did the arithmetic right, I come up with about $165 worth of platinum in the catalytic converter.

So at current prices the rank ordering is:
Nickel in the battery: $250.
Platinum in the catalytic converter: $165.
Rare earths: $120.

 

So at current prices the rank ordering is:
Nickel in the battery: $250.
Platinum in the catalytic converter: $165.
Rare earths: $120.
Owner satisfaction: Priceless.

 

Prius, it's everywhere you want to be.

 

Wasn't there another thread running entitled "desperate measures" ...?
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How many old disk drives still storing useless windoze distributions,
peoples' back taxes, and baby pictures are sitting in landfills?
Not all those magnets are stuck to geek-household fridges, y'know.
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_H*

 

Coincidentally here's another short piece about it:

Hybrids' thirst for metal causes mining concerns | Up to Speed | Los Angeles Times

 

I'm assuming that SUVs have larger catalytic converters than the Prius. Additionally, as batteries and motors become the predominant power for light cars and engines become smaller and smaller, the amount of platinum needed by our society for catalytic converters will actually decrease. This platinum would then be freed up for other uses. Do you agree?

 

My sister had emailed me the OP article for comment. I agree that this topic seems to arise yearly.

The lanthanum (battery) number must be wrong; are we confusing with nickel?

The "compenstation" mentioned above for catalyst metals seems quite on target, and will be more so when and if we get a large fleet of EVs. For that matter I expect the REE issue to grow to real prominence by then. For now it is tough to know the details of the REE industry because they are mostly proprietary or 'pay per view'.

The California Mountain pass mine opened 2007 per wiki.

USGS has the best free info on mining rates and reserves:

USGS Minerals Information: Rare Earths

A lot or REE go into fireworks (a China thing but who the heck can tell how much?

 

Don't worry - a new mine is re-opening in California that will solve most of these problems.

FEATURE-California mine digs in for 'green' gold rush | Reuters

Funny how that happens when prices go up a bit - "new" sources of these "rare" metals are found!

 

One of the ironies in life has been the degree that Canadian 'pollution' was important to some hybrid-skeptics but Chinese pollution gets a pass from these same skeptics. ... Not that we should draw any conclusions from observing skeptic behavior. The lack of skeptic consistency is a thing of wonder and horror.

This really came home during last year's summer games and some of the rare but real reports of the Chinese environment where 1/3d of the earth's population lives. I remember famines as recently as the 1950s and have read pretty grim statistics of earlier incidents when the environment was unable to sustain the people.

Bob Wilson

 

So current reserves are enough for 8 billion Prius