Prius Plug-in and Volt Pros and Cons

I think I get what you are trying to say -- that charging at 110-120v may not give you enough range if you don't have a gas engine. That could be valid for an all battery car but a Volt or BMW i3 with the range extender option could easily add 30-50 miles of EV range charging at 120v overnight and not leave you concerned about range anxiety.

The first year I had my Volt I had a 21 mile round trip commute to work. I easily recharged that overnight within the 7 hour off-peak period of my utility's Time of Use electricity rate. A Ford Energi model could have worked for me as well. Since then I have moved farther from work and my new home had an unused 240v 30a electric dryer outlet so I have switched to charging at 240v so I can get a full 40-50 mile charge during the off-peak period.

 

What's your definition of an EV? The Volt still has an engine, which is nowhere as efficient as the PIPs and uses premium, and only goes ~35 miles on battery (which really is not that far), has minimal cargo capacity and a cramped rear seat and costs more too.

 

The Volt has a large enough battery that it can output 111 kW (150 HP) to its larger motor and never start the gas engine due to speed or acceleration (driver torque demand). That makes it an EREV (according to GM's proposed definition to the SAE) like the BMW i3 with a range extender.

The EPA EV range estimate for the 2013 and 2014 Volt is 38 miles although it's easy to do better most of the year. The Volt has okay cargo capacity with the rear seats up -- with them down it has almost the same capacity as my 2004 2nd gen Prius hatchback which is pretty good in my opinion.

The rear seating is a little tight but it's fine for local trips with larger folks or long trips with smaller folks as long as the front seats aren't pushed far back.

With the federal tax credits, the Volt is actually about $1,000 cheaper than the Prius Plugin based on their official MSRPs. Toyota has some aggressive promotional financing discounts while some higher volume Volt dealers sell at up to $5,000 discounts. Both cars can be bought for about the same effective price.

 

Let's not overlook the greenwashing campaign which PiP is having to deal with. A small group of individuals are working hard to make people not notice the differences between the plug-in and regular model. They're doing it by misleading about how "blending" actually works.

For the regular Prius, it means combining gas & electricity in an optimized way. The end result is higher MPG, even without ever plugging in.

For the plug-in Prius, it also means combining gas & electricity in an optimized way. It result is also higher MPG. The catch is, plug-supplied electricity is taken advantage of. Those attempting to greenwash hope you won't seek out any detail, wanting you to assume it works exactly like the regular model. It doesn't.

What actually happens is the battery provides much more electricity. Since people assume that means greater distance in EV, it's easy to get them to think there's no benefit when not in EV-mode. In other words, the hope is people will believe the plug-in only delivers 49 MPG on the highway. It doesn't.

That "more electricity" is really a greater draw-rate. In other words, the electric-motor works more and the engine works less in the plug-in model while on the highway. That's easy to confirm too. At 65 mph, which requires the engine to run, you'll see the system maintaining 100 MPG... a value clearly much higher than what the regular model delivers.

So what if that "blending" means less electric-only driving. It still means more MPG, by reducing the impact of engine warm-up and increasing efficiency at high-speeds.

 

Disagree, maybe and maybe not. I drove the last 620 miles using only 2 gallon of gas, my EV usage is around 78%. 2014 PIP and it is ideal for me.

The PIP acceleration is just fine, and the engine does not kick in for me to go as fast as I want from 0 to 62 MPH, in fact I use eco mode all of the time.

I don't know where you get this coaxed to do EV bull shit, it does not take any coaxing for me to drive 12 to 13 miles in full EV mode even in the winter. I drove to church and back every Sunday all this last winter in pure EV mode, 11 mile round trip. Granted I did not heat the cabin.

Plus the way the Prius PIP works when I am on a trip and driving as a hybrid I get 56 MPG.


Now where I do agree, I wish the battery pack was bigger, and I would like more EV range plus cabin heat. I am a retired engineer and I need toys since I have time on my hands so I have a BMW i3 Rex on order. I still plan on keeping the Prius plug-in. Toyota did a great job designing the Prius plug-in. For people with short commutes and charging at work it is a great combination, plus you still have a car with a range of 500 to 550 miles and stellar gasoline fuel efficiency.

 

The other active greenwashing effort is to mislead about electric power by downplaying it. That same small group of individuals are hoping their random belittle comments will be accepted as genuine. After all, most people don't have a means of verifying those statements.

As a result, people get the impression the plug-in Prius is an after-thought for Toyota, something cobbled together in response to GM. Some of us are aware that isn't true, that the traction-motor is underutilized, limited by the amount of power available. The bigger battery provide that extra power.

The hope is an assumption that this model of Prius works the same way as the one without a plug, that the bigger battery simply allows it to operate that way for a longer duration. It doesn't.

As owners, we know that acceleration from a stop in the suburbs and hill climbing in EV-mode isn't a big deal. Greenwashers want you to believe that isn't possible. Ironically, that desire to undermine serves as an endorsement. Their wouldn't be any reason to post false information if the system wasn't able to compete.

In additional to posting false information, there's also an on-going undermine effort. The desired outcome is to mislead about the size of the battery-pack by getting others to express a need for it to be larger. That way, it appears as though the current offering isn't enough. It give the impression of a shortcoming, a feeling of not enough.

It's a technique which plays upon "more" marketing. Given a choice, people will basically always desire more. Ask them about MPG. Who wouldn't have a preference for a higher number? That's human nature. It's a weakness we routinely succumb to.

The key is leaving out important detail, like the sacrifice of interior space and being affordable. They don't address that. Avoidance is a dead giveaway the "discussion" isn't constructive. That type of manipulation happens on a regular basis. It's quite annoying, but not unexpected. Any technology providing a true advance forward (change of the status quo) will come with resistance.

Think about current Prius owners. Their purchase was based upon the practical nature of the vehicle and it being reasonably priced. Why would their next be any different? Having the engine stay off longer and getting more electric power is what they'd like, but they aren't going to consider that a high priority. That means the plug-in battery-pack should be on the smaller side. More isn't necessarily better.

 

Hello there John:
Just to ease your mind, I don't think there's any sort of conspiracy working to control people's minds about hybrids, at least not in this forum. If someone wants a bigger battery, it's not an effort to mislead anyone, it's just a normal desire to see something better in the future. We humans all have our weaknesses, but most of the time we work together to make our lives a bit better in spite of them. Cheer up, it's not so bad.

 

The choice of whether or not to participate/lurk on other forums & blogs is each person's decision.

If you desire, there's an extensive history of greenwash attempts available to read about. If not, just keep aware that they happened and could again.

Enjoyment of each person's purchase has no bearing on that though. They've already contributed a great deal to helping squash those efforts.

 

I guess the very purpose of a forum is to express opinions in hopes of swaying others to your own point of view, but in my view, we stand to gain far more than we lose. The sharing of ideas is a synergy, and it allows our own views to be weighed by being challenged or supported. Each of us has our own mind, and having it changed by a convincing argument isn't necessarily a bad thing.

 

I can attest to this. Last week, on my way home from my brother's place, I filled up at the Sheetz on Rt 10 near Hopewell, Va. and drove from there straight home to NJ. According to the end of trip screen, I drove 361 miles and got 66mpg doing 65-70mph up 95. I kept the car in HV until I got near my exit and switched to EV for the end of the ride. So far, I still have 3 pips left on the fuel gauge and I've put an additional 181 miles on the trip odometer since I filled up in Va.

My commute is 15.5 miles to work and 18 back and I'm also allowed to charge at work. This morning I did 127mpg coming in and last night, I did 159mpg going home, just by keeping the car in EV. At this time, my all time high on blend is 339mpg in my commute. The PiP is not your average hatchback.

 

these cars should have a imput for $ per gal of gas and the cost of electricity and give a cost per miles driven. that would be more informative.

 

A pencil and a piece of paper work fine.

 

First of all it was me that said that, Greg has contributed a lot too, but I said I drove to church all winter w/o heat but I did use the heated seats. Hay 5.5 miles one way, how much waste heat for such a short distance. I also have a BMW i3 on order, so next winter I will have about 80 miles EV and heat too.

Next what good are the numbers, well I have to agree yo have to know how to look at them. For example I pay $0.125 per kwh for electricity. So in the Prius plug-in I get 56 to 59 MPG and gas is currently $ 3.69/gal. Hay 3.69/57.5= $0.064/ mile vs 2.3 Kwh per charge 2.3x 0.125/kwh = 0.295/12miles= $0.0245/mile.

Enough said. I save approximately $ .04/mile

However I am averaging 269/mile per gallon. It's just numbers. You drive what you like and can afford.

 

In the simplest of terms, I now pay $100 per month for fuel to commute with my PIP. I was paying $200 per month with my Corolla.

 

If I didn't know better, Jeff, I'd opine you are rationalizing your purchase decision to buy a Volt.

I wonder how that 40 mile range is during cold winter days with the Volt's heater running.

Quick research indicates terms like "lukewarm," or "barely adequate for comfort" are associated with the Volt in cold climes. GM elected to put a resistive heater in (plus seat heaters, which the PiP has too). Energy doesn't get made or used in a vacuum. To warm the cabin to 70F on a 15F day, all electric range MUST suffer. It's physics.

 

It would take extreme dedication to drive without heat in the winter here. Personally, I think the Prius is very efficient at scavenging heat from the exhaust system, therefore interior heating doesn't impact fuel economy much, if at all.

 

As you surmise, the heater takes a significant toll on the Volt's range.

As it happens (and you may know this) the Volt will force ICE operation below 15 F to assist with the heat.

The "lukewarm" and other comment don't apply though to the resistance heat. Used boldly it heats very well.

 

Your forgetting that he only uses the seat heater...

A few folks have said the heater was weak. Others have said it was fine. Some of the reports of weak heat turned out to be people using the "eco" setting (which reduces the power to to heater) instead of "comfort" mode. Others were due to some defective heater modules in early 2013 cars. Others were due to software bugs in the climate controller in early 2013 cars. There are service bulletins that fix those problems for free under warranty.

The 2013 and 2014 cars have a Hold Mode similar to the HV button on the Prius Plugin that lets the driver to force the gas engine to start up and provide heat on colder days and longer trips in order to preserve battery power for the motors.

The Volt is pretty well insulated and I have black upholstery. I rarely use any heating other than the seat heaters where I'm at and I stay comfortable with only a light jacket during morning commutes down to 36F.