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Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage?

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by liquidsoapdispenser, Mar 14, 2007.

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  1. liquidsoapdispenser

    liquidsoapdispenser New Member

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    I'm hoping some of you more knowledgeable then me can refute this article. If it has already been discussed, please forward me to the thread. Thanks!


    ORIGINAL ARTICLE HERE:
    Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage


    March 7, 2007

    Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage
    By Chris Demorro
    Staff Writer

    The Toyota Prius has become the flagship car for those in our society so environmentally conscious that they are willing to spend a premium to show the world how much they care. Unfortunately for them, their ultimate ‘green car’ is the source of some of the worst pollution in North America; it takes more combined energy per Prius to produce than a Hummer.

    Before we delve into the seedy underworld of hybrids, you must first understand how a hybrid works. For this, we will use the most popular hybrid on the market, the Toyota Prius.

    The Prius is powered by not one, but two engines: a standard 76 horsepower, 1.5-liter gas engine found in most cars today and a battery- powered engine that deals out 67 horsepower and a whooping 295ft/lbs of torque, below 2000 revolutions per minute. Essentially, the Toyota Synergy Drive system, as it is so called, propels the car from a dead stop to up to 30mph. This is where the largest percent of gas is consumed. As any physics major can tell you, it takes more energy to get an object moving than to keep it moving. The battery is recharged through the braking system, as well as when the gasoline engine takes over anywhere north of 30mph. It seems like a great energy efficient and environmentally sound car, right?

    You would be right if you went by the old government EPA estimates, which netted the Prius an incredible 60 miles per gallon in the city and 51 miles per gallon on the highway. Unfortunately for Toyota, the government realized how unrealistic their EPA tests were, which consisted of highway speeds limited to 55mph and acceleration of only 3.3 mph per second. The new tests which affect all 2008 models give a much more realistic rating with highway speeds of 80mph and acceleration of 8mph per second. This has dropped the Prius’s EPA down by 25 percent to an average of 45mpg. This now puts the Toyota within spitting distance of cars like the Chevy Aveo, which costs less then half what the Prius costs.

    However, if that was the only issue with the Prius, I wouldn’t be writing this article. It gets much worse.

    Building a Toyota Prius causes more environmental damage than a Hummer that is on the road for three times longer than a Prius. As already noted, the Prius is partly driven by a battery which contains nickel. The nickel is mined and smelted at a plant in Sudbury, Ontario. This plant has caused so much environmental damage to the surrounding environment that NASA has used the ‘dead zone’ around the plant to test moon rovers. The area around the plant is devoid of any life for miles.

    The plant is the source of all the nickel found in a Prius’ battery and Toyota purchases 1,000 tons annually. Dubbed the Superstack, the plague-factory has spread sulfur dioxide across northern Ontario, becoming every environmentalist’s nightmare.

    “The acid rain around Sudbury was so bad it destroyed all the plants and the soil slid down off the hillside,†said Canadian Greenpeace energy-coordinator David Martin during an interview with Mail, a British-based newspaper.

    All of this would be bad enough in and of itself; however, the journey to make a hybrid doesn’t end there. The nickel produced by this disastrous plant is shipped via massive container ship to the largest nickel refinery in Europe. From there, the nickel hops over to China to produce ‘nickel foam.’ From there, it goes to Japan. Finally, the completed batteries are shipped to the United States, finalizing the around-the-world trip required to produce a single Prius battery. Are these not sounding less and less like environmentally sound cars and more like a farce?

    Wait, I haven’t even got to the best part yet.

    When you pool together all the combined energy it takes to drive and build a Toyota Prius, the flagship car of energy fanatics, it takes almost 50 percent more energy than a Hummer - the Prius’s arch nemesis.

    Through a study by CNW Marketing called “Dust to Dust,†the total combined energy is taken from all the electrical, fuel, transportation, materials (metal, plastic, etc) and hundreds of other factors over the expected lifetime of a vehicle. The Prius costs an average of $3.25 per mile driven over a lifetime of 100,000 miles - the expected lifespan of the Hybrid.

    The Hummer, on the other hand, costs a more fiscal $1.95 per mile to put on the road over an expected lifetime of 300,000 miles. That means the Hummer will last three times longer than a Prius and use less combined energy doing it.

    So, if you are really an environmentalist - ditch the Prius. Instead, buy one of the most economical cars available - a Toyota Scion xB. The Scion only costs a paltry $0.48 per mile to put on the road. If you are still obsessed over gas mileage - buy a Chevy Aveo and fix that lead foot.

    One last fun fact for you: it takes five years to offset the premium price of a Prius. Meaning, you have to wait 60 months to save any money over a non-hybrid car because of lower gas expenses.
     
    #1 liquidsoapdispenser, Mar 14, 2007
  2. daveleeprius

    daveleeprius Heh heh heh you think so?

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    Yet another Prius-basher. Sorry I'm not buying it. If you drive a Hummer and a Prius for 300,000 miles each, the Hummer has by far done more damage to the environment in terms of, Emissions into the atmosphere, Amount of gas and oil used over 300,000 miles, and possibly tire damage to roads in forests causing erosion. So the car that makes less of an impact on the environment, despite the lead-acid battery issue, is the Prius. The Hummer is not, has never been, and never will be, a green vehicle. Not to mention the fact that a Hummer will probably not last 300,000 miles in the first place without major repairs.

    Dave
     
    #2 daveleeprius, Mar 14, 2007
  3. MegansPrius

    MegansPrius GoogleMeister, AKA bongokitty

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    #3 MegansPrius, Mar 14, 2007
  4. daveleeprius

    daveleeprius Heh heh heh you think so?

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    Yeah and it's so totally obvious that the people who post these articles are just idiot spammers. Face it, the Prius is the smartest new car out there being driven today. Other car manufacturers are trying to catch up. But the Hummer is just a big monster truck 4x4. They are the direct opposite of the Prius. My next door neighbor drives one, an H3, but he's a totally nice guy so I don't fault him for it. Strangely enough, he had a Toyota SUV before he got his Hummer. Weird.

    Dave
     
    #4 daveleeprius, Mar 14, 2007
  5. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DaveLeePrius @ Mar 14 2007, 04:09 PM) [snapback]405703[/snapback]</div>

    You noticed that too huh? They always have 1 or 2 posts to their name. lol
     
    #5 F8L, Mar 14, 2007
  6. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    omg not again.

    I thought liquidsoap was not a troll but a legitimate member?
     
    #6 Tideland Prius, Mar 14, 2007
  7. daveleeprius

    daveleeprius Heh heh heh you think so?

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tideland Prius @ Mar 14 2007, 07:46 PM) [snapback]405748[/snapback]</div>
    yeah right, 3 posts and here comes the Hummer vs. Prius thread? Pheeewww.
     
    #7 daveleeprius, Mar 14, 2007
  8. Stev0

    Stev0 Honorary Hong Kong Cavalier

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    Like the Dying Boy Wants Postcards and the Nieman Marcus Cookie Recipe stories, this will be coming back (at least) once a week for the next 10 years. Get used to it.
     
    #8 Stev0, Mar 14, 2007
  9. liquidsoapdispenser

    liquidsoapdispenser New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DaveLeePrius @ Mar 14 2007, 06:08 PM) [snapback]405757[/snapback]</div>
    Geesh guys, don't be paranoid, I'm new to the Prius boards and submitted this to learn more so I could argue with my father-in-law (who sent me the article today). Not cool to judge me so quickly... I'm a friend.

    BTW, I appreciate those who directed me to earlier discussions on this topic.
     
    #9 liquidsoapdispenser, Mar 14, 2007
  10. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(liquidsoapdispenser @ Mar 14 2007, 06:57 PM) [snapback]405773[/snapback]</div>
    I'm not paranoid. Just seems odd that almost all of these types of posts are done by new membes with very few posts then you never hear from them again. If you are not a part of this cycle then welcome to PC and please accept my appology. :D
     
    #10 F8L, Mar 14, 2007
  11. liquidsoapdispenser

    liquidsoapdispenser New Member

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    Actually, as I read a few more posts bashing my genuine post which started with the statement:
    Sucks to be a newbee looking for help to refute an anti-prius article and then being bashed as an "idiot spammer".
     
    #11 liquidsoapdispenser, Mar 14, 2007
  12. Chuck.

    Chuck. Former Honda Enzyte Driver

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    Strange.

    Someone at GreenHybrid this afternoon was presenting this same article that has been refuted several times there, here, elsewhere.

    If it's worth rediscussing, please provide some new factual links with it.
     
    #12 Chuck., Mar 14, 2007
  13. tripp

    tripp Which it's a 'ybrid, ain't it?

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    Whoa, Chill sisters. Yes, we've seen this before. This article isn't worth the bytes that define it. We know it's a load of bollocks and this guy's just trying to get some clarification. If you'd just read the first para of his post you'd realize he isn't trolling. The smugness and baiting isn't there.

    Soapy, next time try a search first. We've seen this "article" or one like it quite a few times now. The search functionality isn't great, perhaps you've already tried it.

    If it showed up last week it's a retread because we saw this at least 6 months ago too.

    Oh, and welcome to PC. :D
     
    #13 tripp, Mar 14, 2007
  14. MegansPrius

    MegansPrius GoogleMeister, AKA bongokitty

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tripp @ Mar 14 2007, 10:26 PM) [snapback]405797[/snapback]</div>
    Actually, the article liquidsoap linked to is relatively new (March 7) and combines the CNW dust-to-dust study WITH the Daily Mail Arid-Wilderness story and WITH dissing the Prii on the revised EPA numbers. So while we've seen the separate pieces before, this one ought to win some GM propaganda award for its creative remix of misinformation. And sorry people thought you were trolling liquidsoapdispenser, but we really do get this sort of thing pretty frequently and it gets a bit mind-numbing trying to distinguish between the two. That aside, welcome to Priuschat!
     
    #14 MegansPrius, Mar 14, 2007
  15. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

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    Well, if we can move past the ruffled feathers, shall we get on with refuting the article's claims?

    Yes, Sudbury is a moonscape, but this is hardly Toyota's fault. All mining tends to be destructive, and most cars are made of mostly metal. The Hummer is made of more metal than most, with a curb weight of 6400 pounds. The Prius weighs in at under 3000 pounds, or less than half an H2. Which do you think is more responsible for environmental destruction caused by mining?

    Suggesting the Prius is more expensive per mile because the Hummer will last three times longer is pure bullsh!t. The latest issue of Consumer Reports rates the reliability of the H3 as 'much worse than average', and the Prius as 'much better than average.' Which vehicle is going to require more repairs and likely be scrapped sooner?
     
    #15 hyo silver, Mar 14, 2007
  16. darelldd

    darelldd Prius is our Gas Guzzler

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    I haven't read the other threads on this subject. But I do know many of the problems with the article.

    It is assumed that a Prius can only be driven 100,000 miles (or so) while a Hummer can be driven 300,000 miles - so the lifetime energy can come out in favor of the Hummer. Nice. It also assumes that the Prius isn't used as "real" car, but basically as a Neighborhood car - one that doesn't even travel on the freeway!

    It is just BS.
     
    #16 darelldd, Mar 14, 2007
  17. LaughingMan

    LaughingMan Active Member

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    The assumption that the Prius will drop dead at 100000 miles because that's when the hybrid drivetrain warrantee runs out is baloney.

    How about the taxi driver in Canada that put about that much on his Prius in 2 to 3 years, and is still doing great?

    Moreover, when the battery does start to lose effectiveness, all that means is that the mileage will be reduced and you'll start to use more fuel, not that the car stops working.

    BAH.
     
    #17 LaughingMan, Mar 14, 2007
  18. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    #18 cwerdna, Mar 15, 2007
  19. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(LaughingMan @ Mar 14 2007, 09:33 PM) [snapback]405862[/snapback]</div>
    He's waaay past 100,000 miles lol. He's at half a million kms at last check.
     
    #19 Tideland Prius, Mar 15, 2007
  20. Essayons

    Essayons Essayons

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    The article in question is written by a jornalism student at a NE college. This is just a students paper that he has to write for a course. Don't get too wound up about this, anyone with half a brain would figure out that it not credble.
     
    #20 Essayons, Mar 15, 2007
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