Prius Hybrid vs. VW Diesel (new tech)

Our family of four made the switch from VW (Golf, Golf diesel, Vanagon td, Jetta) to Prius last year. We also debated long and hard between the Jetta tdi wagon and the Prius. We are now more than happy with our move. We turned over 75,000 miles on our '04 Prius last week. We got it used with 41,000 miles on it 17 months ago. It has performed flawlessly all along-- only oil and filter changes and a set of tires. Our VW experience was different than that. The new Sportwagon with BluTec definantly complicates the decision. Reliability would be my biggest concern.

Do you know whether the 40/60 mpg rating compares to the old 60/51 for the Prius or with the updated 48/45?

Do you know how the price of the new ultra low sulpher diesel will compare with the current diesel?

PA P

 

Just the fact that diesel is not as readily available in north america and often costs more has to enter into the equation as well. Toyota's reliability vs. VW has to enter into the equation. The rest is nothing more than personal preference towards styling and the like.

 

<div align="left">The problem with the Jetta is it's made by Volkswagen. They always seem to have some sort of reliability issue. Other than that I'd consider a diesel...or even better a diesel/hybrid.</div>

 

I fit a 50" samsung plasma, a full sony 5.1 theater system, and my wife in the prius. Space and storage limitations are not an issue.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Slair @ Sep 5 2007, 02:31 PM) [snapback]507422[/snapback]</div>

You replaced your MFD with a 50" Samsung plasma. Dude!

PA P

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SB2 @ Sep 5 2007, 02:49 PM) [snapback]507433[/snapback]</div>

I have hard time believing the new EPA numbers, but it doesn't really matter. What matters most is what actual every day driving will get you and you'll find that a lot of people are beating not only the new but also the old EPA MPG figures. My car is just over 7K miles and the only mods I made is at around 5K I inflated the tires first to 40/38 then to 42/40 psi (factory setting are 35/33). I have no EBH or EV button and most of my driving is on the HWY with relativelly short 14 mile drive to work and one long weekend get away trip. My last 3 tanks were all 60+ MPG all around 500 km per tank. Lifetime average >54MPG increasing with every tank to-date.

A lot of people are experiencing even better MPG, but some don't. Driving habits; mods and the type of driving / location all influence individual MPG.

Good luck with your decision
Gabe

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Prius 07 @ Sep 5 2007, 03:30 PM) [snapback]507458[/snapback]</div>

Gabe, U.S. or Imerial gallons?

If you allow the car to teach you, mid 50's are common. If you prefer to drive like the average driver in the average car you will likely be in the mid 40's. Those in the latter category are likely not attracted to PriusChat.

PA P

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(PA Prius @ Sep 5 2007, 03:39 PM) [snapback]507461[/snapback]</div>

US gallons

and agree with your comment about letting the car teach you ... then you can supplement that knowledge with all the good advice here

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Sep 5 2007, 02:43 PM) [snapback]507464[/snapback]</div>

I have both a 2005 Prius and a 2003 TDI Jetta Wagon. If I was to choose between the new TDI Wagon and the Prius I would purchase the TDI.

I have 140K miles on the TDI will no problems except for replacing the glow plugs. It will easily get 50 mpg on the highway at 75 mph. I will be commuting 150 miles per day on the highway so the TDI is the natural choice for me. Getting diesel has never been a problem. I log the price of diesel vs regular gas and over the last 5 years diesel has averaged $0.01 more per gallon.

The Prius gets about 45 mpg on the highway at 75 mph. Right now now my wife uses it for a 25 mile city commute so it is the better choice for that. It has been getting about 50 mpg it that use.

To me the VW is just a much nicer car. It handles and rides MUCH better and also a better interior and ergonomics for me. (5'10", 180 lb) The VW has more cargo room, the Prius more rear passenger room.


I have no problem believing the new TDI will get 60mpg on the highway using the new EPA formula. As I said, I can get 50 to 55 mpg with my TDI and it was designed it 1993. The newer BMW's, Mercedes, and VW diesels I've driven in Europe have returned outstanding mileage. I got 30mpg in a C-Class with an average speed of about 95 mph and a top speed of 150 mph.

Feel free to ask me any specific questions.

Jason

 

Diesel was like 30 cents per gallon more around here last I noticed. No encouragement there come replacement time...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Sep 5 2007, 01:43 PM) [snapback]507464[/snapback]</div>

I have to admit being skeptical of those 40/60 mileage numbers as well. A little googling did reveal an independent source . That said, the source is VW, so it will be interesting to see if EPA tests bear that out.

from http://www.autoblog.com/2007/05/08/diesel-...al-fuel-sipper/
Inside Line is reporting that VW expects 2008 Sportwagens ordered with the 2.0 diesel engine to get EPA numbers of 40 city/60 highway.

from http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=120684
VW of America Spokesman Keith Price said the automaker is anticipating EPA numbers of 40 mpg in city driving and 60 mpg on the highway for the diesel SportWagen.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DeadPhish @ Sep 5 2007, 04:17 PM) [snapback]507508[/snapback]</div>

The new TDI Jetta is expected to start at between $19K to $20K. Last I checked the Prius starts at $23K. I would put the purchase cost comparison squarely in the TDI's favor.

I expect that the first TDI's will sell above MSRP though.

 

Hi SB2,

As Jhinton experience is evidence of, I read somewhere the only TDI to buy was the Jetta Wagon, as it was the only one availabe in the US, still made in Germany.

Do not trust the EPA on the Prius. The Prius is the first car I have ever driven that routinely kills the EPA rating, and then some. Even the old ratings. I imagine the TDI will be like other cars, and come in a little worse in the real world experience.

I drive in Chicagoland traffic all week long. The Prius easily beats the TDI, even the new Bluetec in this enviorment.

Cruise control at 70 mph, the Prius would probably tie the TDI on energy used, but as there is 13 percent more energy in diesel fuel per gallon, the TDI would probably get better mileage.

Also consider your summer versus winter driving. Diesel is more expensive than gas in the winter, and ties, or slighly less in the summer.

Are you planing on a manual or automatic transmission in the TDI ? In a rural enviorement from VW, the manual probably makes more sense. Does the automatic impact those TDI mileage ratings somewhat?

On Biodiesel, over the life of the car there will probably be bio-gas (bio-butanol) available in the US in similar, if not higher mix ratios.

On maintenance side of things, there are brakes ( $300+$500+$700), alternator ($200), PS pump (?), starter ($200) and turbo ($1000) costs in the TDI ledger. Assuming manual trans - clutch ($1000) None of these costs in the Prius ledger to 125 K miles. So, the TDI will need to be like $3900 cheaper to cover these things.

If you plan to sell the car before these maintanence items come due, well, that is what the blue book is for. You still pay for what you have used up at the time of sale in reduced resale value.

The other issue with the Jetta next year is that its the first year of the car in the US. So there may be some US shakedown issues.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(donee @ Sep 5 2007, 09:12 PM) [snapback]507666[/snapback]</div>

The TDIs get slightly better mileage with the Automatic... (not a typo).