prius fuel requirement

The Prius is not designed for E85, but will work fine with E10.

A group did do an experiment on a classic Prius using E85. Once the engine warmed up, it performed OK, but performed poor until warmup. After 140 miles, the check engine light came on.
No long term study has been made on the effects of E85 on the Prius.

From a power standpoint, E85 was shown to work, since the computers automatically adjust fuel/air ratio for a complete burn. During warmup though, the computer has no feedback to adjust for proper burn, so it has to guess based on its tables. The current MAP in the ECM doesn't currently account for the charateristics so it doesn't burn right until the O2 helps the ECM adjust.

Now, over long drive miles, the ECM realizes it had to stretch pretty far from the norm, so it flags the Check Engine light, even though it is running fine.
So from an engine performance issue, it only would requre a reprogramming.

But then there's the question of deterioration of parts, especially plastic/rubber ones. That we don't know at all.

 

The user manual for my US model 2005 says (iirc) max 10% ethanol. It would be kind of nice to have a full flex-fuel model, but it doesn't look like the US version is that.

Strictly FWIW, I saw this cautionary tale on ethanol efficiency:

http://calenergy.blogspot.com/2005/06/scie...anol-waste.html

I thinke we (as a nation) need to figure out which ethanol production methods really fly on EROEI (Energy Returned On Energy Invested).

 

From what I have read, Ethanol borders on break even. Some studies show a slight positive return, some a negative.

My belief is that as we start using it, more efficient ways to produce/transport/use it will be found.
Some of the byproducts can also produce energy, such as biodiesel.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DanMan32\";p=\"102475)</div>

Why isn't it consistent? Either E90/E85 or E10/E15?...

 

Re. break even

Yeah, it's kinda sad how hard it is to real number though. I think (or certainly hope) that the best technologies are net-positive, but my understanding is that the current system subsidizes both positive and negative producers. There was some language in the new Energy Bill to give "extra" compensation to efficient producers, leaving the other guys at the baseline credits. Maybe that was all that was politically possible, but I consider it sub-optimal.

BTW, for those who haven't heard it, one of the important differences in a true flex-fuel car is that none of the hoses, seals, or gaskets decompose in a pure ethanol environment. Kinda important ;-)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(GLIDE50\";p=\"102465)</div>

Wow..you still waiting after April 25???? My local dealer has 2 on the lot..Nederland TEXAS., one is a seaside pearl., pckge #2...and other goodies for $23,900....if you want one you might just come on down..or up....!!!??? also FRED HAAS in Houston TEXAS can get you one EASY ... maybe you need to get on a plane ... E-Mail me if you want assistance..anybody who has waited this long DESERVES ONE...They are great cars.

BEST of luck and BEST REGARDS
Immanuel Altmann
[email protected]

 

HEY DAN AND PRIUS BOARD MANAGERS

Maybe we should start a Help someone find a Prius service.....seems like a lot of people wait a long time and fight good and hard..and yet some places in the country have plenty of cars and no takers..maybe we can steer some lost souls to the right place!!

 

About the only serious concern I would have WRT E85 damage is the fuel tank bladder.

Toyota would have to add a fuel tank sensor, like an ORP sensor, to determine the ethanol content of the fuel, which would provide feedback to the computer.

The computer could then use different fuel/ignition and different ICE maps depending on temperature and ethanol content.

It should be noted that E85 fueled vehicles can be very hard or even impossible to start in cold, especially -18 C or colder.