Prius Conversion to E85 Ethanol?

This has been discussed before and the answer is no.

Regardless if you think those few wires are worth $139.00, do you really think it costs $99.00 to ship the little box those suckers come in? And I don't see anything about reprogramming the Prius computer for the E85 fuel mix. And he doesn't mention how much it's going to cost you to replace the bladder.

No. Just.....no.

 

There is a substantial community of folks out there who have done DIY ethanol conversions. Some who even make their own ethanol (it's just well refined moonshine).

If I'm not mistaken (and I will probably spend the rest of the night reading up on this) there is quite a bit involved - like fuel lines, pump, filter, injector nozzles. I might be wrong about that though.

It also takes quite a bit more ethanol to get you the same distance as gasoline. There is less stored energy, in other words. The fact that it is cheaper per gallon is nice, but you use a lot more of it to go the same distance.

 

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Hi UNWIRED,

I read through the Volvo chat group link in the ebay listing. Very Interesting. What it comes down to though, is you need to increase the compression ratio for E85. The Volvo guys with turbo's have an easy alternative. They just up the boost, and get a higher effective compression ratio. Additionally, the cooling effect of the ethanol helps things out a bunch, kinda like a chemical second intercooler. They are getting 330 hp out of the turbo 2.3 liter.

There are several ways to get the increased flow for E85. The simplest seems to be replacing the injectors with higher flow rate injectors. Which is appropriate on the 6 to 9 year old Volvo's talked about. As at that age, replacing the injectors is an appropriate maintanance anyway. Other methods they talk about about is increasing the fuel pressure using a different fuel pressure regulator. At higher pressure, more flow through the same injectors. And finally, they mention the injector pulse stretcher box being sold on Ebay. You would only need one of these three, not all of them.

E85 is apparently much cheaper in Europe. Probably due to the lack of import tarrif on it, unlike here in the US. It turns out that the 30 % more volume consumption of fuel evens out with the lower cost, or even a little better. The car only uses 30 % more E85 than gasoline, because with proper compression ratio modification - more power, the engine runs under load less they say. Otherwise the car would need to use 40 % more fuel. An unmodified car with a gasoline compression ratio would need 50 % more fuel they say, making it uneconomic, which is what GM and Ford sell as E85 compatible (SCAM!).

So, unless you fit a turbo to your Prius, this modification and E85 would be a step backwards. Additionally, the state of Minnesota tested a Gen 1 Prius (no baldder) on E85. It seemed to work, but threw a code - small air fuel ratio. Of course. No other codes, however. The issue might be with the longevity of the fuel tank bladder when exposed to Ethanol, however.

But if you got E85 handy, and an old Volvo Turbo Wagon you still want to use (chop top El-Camino style? rather than buying a F150) , might be a good thing.

 

And what would be the point? Less mileage, about the same pollution and encourages the use of oil and natural gas during corn harvesting.

Ethanol from corn is no good. Possibly worse than gas...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Alric @ Sep 23 2007, 10:00 AM) [snapback]516522[/snapback]</div>

True that. Most gas stations in Illinois have 10% ethanol added in the gas and my family found that our mileage is about 4 mpg less than regular gas, 89 octane, and it's only about 10 cents cheaper. Doing the math, it is more expensive over time to buy that gas and the mileage is worse. Plus, it may only be cheaper than regular gas due to subsidies, not from lower production costs.

 

Remember, most cars can run on E85.......for a while. Other than the car needing a retuning, ethanol is a much harsher solvent than gasoline, and will attack any plastic or rubber parts that it comes in contact with, even parts that aren't harmed by E10 or gasoline. In the long term unless you can be sure the entire fuel system is ethanol safe you are asking for lots of problems running E85.

 

For sure a scam.

Additional info: I remember reading of somebody who was running their Prius on E85, but it definitely isn't sanctioned by Toyota. And, yeah, it can agressively dissolve 'stuff', so I'd not run it within mfr approval.

It also generates lower power in colder temps and can make the car harder to start when it's cold.

Lots of computer unhappiness I can see.

And, finally, for me, it's pointless, 'cause there's like maybe 1 in the entire state of Florida.

PS: There is worthwhile work being done on Ethanol from biomass, but nowhere near ready for market.

 

There is only one E85 station in Phoenix. Why bother?

 

E85 is a SCAM to get the public's mind off the REAL PROBLEM. I hope us American's wise up!

 

Hey you guys-

You have ethanol all wrong... This is moonshine with 15% gas. You can drink it if it was 100% ethanol. Ethanol is not very corrosive. Now you guys are thinking about methanol - which is nasty and will eat everything in your engine. I have seven cars and have converted them all with the Full Flex kits that I bought at www.change2E85.com. I have no problems with corrosion, leaks or anything like that. I know a dude with a Prius and he converted it over and he gets more power with E85 and still maintains 44 MPG. If you check the testmonial page of change2E85.com, the first testamonial is from a prius owner. I come from a farming family and we have been making and using our own ethanol for as long as I can remember. It is the solution - it's cheaper, cleaner, safe, it's Amercian and no war required.

 

I'm afraid we don't have it wrong at all. Check www.chevy.com, they list 2 mpg's figures for the different model cars, with E-85 and regular gas. The E-85 is always less, about 5 mpg's less if I'm not mistaken.

E-85 is a big HOAX

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dave justice @ Nov 15 2007, 06:06 PM) [snapback]540212[/snapback]</div>

And will you tell us when his Prius breaks down?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dave justice @ Nov 15 2007, 07:06 PM) [snapback]540212[/snapback]</div>

Hi Dave,

Have you parked your car(s) outside below -10 F and tried to start them on E85 ?

I have been in favor of Butanol for biofuel myself. It has nearly the same fuel content as gasoline, has nearly the same stoichiometric ratio as gasoline (no mods neccassary), can be pipeline distributed (safe for steel)- no corrosion, and has 25 % more fuel return on a bushel of corn with the latest fementation methods. Check out www.butanol.com . With all these advantages, why are biofuel companies ignoring butanol?!

Oh, and it can be used in diesel as well as spark ignition engines.

 

Yes. Some vehicles are easier to start than others. When I know that it is going to be very cold, I put a little extra gasoline in the tank. I make an E70 or E60 mix. I have a Jeep Cherokee that is a bear to start even below 30 degrees when running E85. So I ordered the new cold start kit from those guys E85 Conversion Kits Change2E85.com . I hope to have it soon. They say that it cycles to maximum during the start up and then it goes into standard mode after running for 30 seconds and they promise that cold starting even in the single digit temp will be possible and much easier .

Also Ethanol is not corrosive. It is a solvent. I was in Bazil last year and they have ethanol pipelines. I can not find a single Brazilian person online that bashes ethanol. They have been running it in their cars for 20 + years and no problems. I've been to Brazil several times and they do have the internet everywhere. There is no one in Brazil that hates ethanol like so many Americans do. Can't find one anywhere.

You guys can believe all of the negitive stuff you want about ethanol. My favorite one is that ethanol production is driving up the price of food. Many people are not taking into consideration that the price of gas went up so everyone from the farmer to the supermarket has to pay more for transportation costs. The funny thing is that the waste product of ethanol is food! The more ethanol that is made, the more food is available. Here is a neat trivia factoid, much of the ethanol available in the Metro Denver area comes from the spill floor at the Coors brewery.

 

Widespread ethanol use as an additive/replacement for gasoline is proving to be a disaster. Millions of acres of land that could be used to grow crops to feed people is instead being planted with crops to feed cars. You tell me which is more important.

At least they've found something to do with that swill from Golden. Lagerheads!

 

scam for sure

Most of the cars sold in Brazil ARE designed to run on either gasoline or ethanol from sugar cane. They're not just cars designed to run on straight gas.

The ethanol that goes into E85 and E10 here comes from corn, not sugar cane.

Change2e85 is just a scam or perhaps you run it. See the video at E85 conversions are impractical - Fly the Road CLUB for all the changes that need to be made to make a car flex fuel capable. If cars could just run off it w/no changes, ALL automakers would be doing it to ALL their vehicles and marketing all their cars as flex capaable so that they could get a HUGE boost in their CAFE numbers due to the E85 scam... err.. incentive. (See http://priuschat.com/forums/other-c...ging-h3-gets-20-highway-mpg-3.html#post314603 from what I'm talking about.)

 

Re: scam for sure

sorry to
say
but do you believe GM when in the video the guys tells you that GM supleyed them with the stuff needed for E85 .??? and therefor GM tells that its nog easy to do E85?

that makes me think E85 is easy and for every one

but for real... i think you need to do some adjustmenst to you car to be E85 able.

 

Lets see if I can remember -ALL- the parts that have to be changed on a GM car to make it E85 compatible per "Goss's Garage" segment on Motorweek:
Fuel filler pipe and filler line, air line, carbon canister.
Fuel tank.
Fuel pump assy. including filter, and fuel level sender unit.
Fuel sensor module in fuel line to tell computer which fuel is in the tank or how much ethyl alcohol is in it currently.
Fuel injector rails (must be stainless).
Fuel injectors (must be larger and designed to not corrode when injecting alcohol - all alcohols are somewhat corrosive, some more than others).
Engine control computer, which must also interface with above fuel sensor module.
Engine wiring harness, which must now handle the fuel sensor module.
Engine head, valves, and valve seats.

So, sure it's easy to convert. Cost? Looks to me $5000 to $10,000 in parts and labor.

All for under $100? What a bargin!!!