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Prius as Generator When Power Is Out

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Main Forum' started by ca3799, Jul 18, 2024.

  1. ca3799

    ca3799 Junior Member

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    I'm in post-hurricane Houston and am interested in using one or more of my 3 (yes, 3) Priuses as an emergency generator for the next freezepocalypse or baby hurricane that comes my way. I like that I already own 3 potential generators in my driveway so would not have to spend several hundred dollars or more on a gas- or solar-powered generator. I also really like that the car is quieter than a generator, the exhaust is less, cleaner, and will be further away from the house. It seems reasonable that the car must be much more fuel efficient than a gas generator since gas will only be used intermittently to power up the HV battery. The only downside I can see is that I can't get as much power from the car as I can from a traditional generator (more on that below) but that's fine with me.

    Reading fellow Houstonians post-hurricane comments, I can see that folks spent a lot on gas (gasoline and LP gas) and also used a lot of gasoline/LP gas which was hard to find for a few days, defeating the purpose of having a stand-alone generator. I don't have the option of a an installed gas line.

    According to very many post-storm reports, gas generators seem to use about one-half to one full gallon of gas per hour and also require frequent maintenance and rest periods that I'm not terribly interested in doing. I don't know what a Prius would use in gasoline just sitting in "Ready" state, but it certainly would be less than what a gasoline-powered generator would use.

    I've gathered from reviewing possibly every post or video available in the internet that I should not use a larger than 1000 watt (pure sine wave if using for any delicate electronics) inverter on the 12v battery to stay comfortably below maxing out the potential wattage available via the car.** I have seen 2 YT videos and one comment on here from folks who have used a 2000 watt inverter, but I think they overbought and I'd also like to stay low to not put any of my 3 cars in any danger since all 3 are also daily use vehicles.

    So is the 1000 watt inverter the best choice for safety in your (anyone who has considered, is knowledgeable about, or has done this) opinion? I think so. Do you see any flaws in my reasoning here?

    I also understand I should stay 20% below the maximum of 1000 watts available using the inverter so I was thinking that I could get a comfortable 800 watts per car. 800 watts would give me a great deal of comfort. I've determined that my fridge uses 379 watts. Caution says I should allow twice that for surges- or when the fridge needs to power up- so I calculated to allow the fridge 758 watts max. I'm thinking I would use one car and one 1000 watt inverter as a stand-alone for the fridge only. Spending about $200 dollars on an inverter, connecting cables, and a heavy duty power cord, and not losing a couple of hundred dollars worth of food makes this seem like a good investment. Do you (anyone who has considered, is knowledgeable about, or has done this) have an opinion on this? Any reason why the cables from the 12v battery/ground to the inverter should be heavy duty cables?

    I was thinking I could disconnect the fridge from time-to-time to power other kitchen stuff except that other kitchen items use a surprisingly large amount of power. For example, the coffee pot says it needs 1550 watts. The microwave says it needs 1150 watts. The tea kettle wants 1000 watts. At these numbers, I'm not sure I can actually use even the tera kettle if I adhere to my previous cautious plans of 800 watts max. I guess I'm wondering if I'm being overly cautious or if I should just plan on some other method(s) of food prep.

    I still have two other cars and could use one or two of them to run stuff like fans, lights, and even the router and household computers, since none of those items are watt-hogs. This would make life much less boring.

    A final question- most inverters allow for two extension cords. I presume this means, using my cautious math, that I can only plan on about 400 watts per cord (or 500/300, 0r 200,600, etc.) Is this correct?

    I guess I'd like opinions and thoughts on these plans and also opinions and thoughts on if I'm being too conservative on my planned usage of 800 watts per car.



    **"The Prius (all generations, as far as I'm aware) has a 100 amp (fuse limitation) on the DC to DC converter that charges the 12V battery.

    100 amps x 12 volts = 1200 watts absolute maximum.

    The car's electronics require some portion of that maximum 1200 available watts while in READY mode.

    A 1000 watt continuous inverter is the absolute largest one recommended, if drawing power through the 12V battery."
    Credit to SweetBearCub here:
     
  2. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    The primary reason you need heavy duty 12v cables is the 80-100 amps you are drawing. 100 amps at 12v needs the same size wires as 100 amps feeding your house. Look at 12v starter cables in a conventional car. 100 amps minimum.
     
  3. Tombukt2

    Tombukt2 Senior Member

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    You want to do all this to avoid a generator interesting yeah it can work I have four of them I've never attempted it I also have a diesel generator that requires like no maintenance I don't know what kind of maintenance you're looking at for generators unless you run the hale out of em And keep them in the standing heat or something silly I don't know or your generator isn't rated for what you're doing with it not electrically but conditionally. Most generators you want going to have at your house you want to have them maybe in the shade some kind of a sunblocker over them to the side of them so they're not sitting and running it $299° because well they're sitting in the direct sun things like that go a long way to not doing lots of repairs and things like that running gas to me is a no-no for a generator and generators the world runs on diesel like the military I have a prime 20K they can run as a power plant until it blows up essentially like what the military uses You can buy these things for 3 grand and they can run and run and run and run in American conditions these things are rated to run in 140° weather 24/7 but in a lot of places you folks live you can't have these they would either be too big or there would be something in your HOA that wouldn't allow it because it's big enough to power your whole house or they don't like the wheels on the trailer or it has a star on it who knows. I also have a roll cage generac 10K on old one before all the generac problems works very well and never been the service per se.
     
  4. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    It's important not to overgeneralize. The DC/DC fuse link was 100 amps in gen 1 and gen 2, It's 125 amps in gen 3 (and the gen 3 DC/DC converter has a published output spec, 120 amps). I don't know offhand the fuse link rating in other generations than those.

    Also, of the cars own loads, there are some tapped from each side of that fuse link. So it is part of the path for power traveling back to the battery, or to the car loads that are on the battery side of it. It is not part of the power path from the converter to the loads on the near side of it. (When the car isn't READY, that link is on that path of power from the battery to those loads. And not on the path from the battery to loads on the battery side of it.)

    I spent some time looking at the diagram trying to come up with a rhyme or reason for which loads come from which side of that link, and gave up.

    I have a 12-volt input, 1000 watt inverter in my gen 3, which is about as large as I would go with something powered from the 12-volt system. Gen 3's DC/DC converter is rated 120 amps, which is somewhere from 1440 watts at 12 volts to 1680 watts at 14 volts, and the car itself uses anywhere from about 400 watts with most accessories turned off, to a lot more when several of its more power-hungry electrical bits are in use (it's safe to assume Toyota didn't go a lot bigger on DC/DC converter capacity than the car's own worst-case usage would demand).

    I have a six-quart Instant Pot in my kitchen, which draws too much for a 1000-watt inverter, but I have a three-quart version that uses 700 watts, and so runs quite comfortably in the car. It is quite a versatile appliance.

    It is, of course, possible to get a good deal more power using an inverter powered from the car's high-voltage system, which has been discussed on this thread:

    Electric power from a hybrid, connecting inverter to the high-voltage system | PriusChat
     
  5. ca3799

    ca3799 Junior Member

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    Thank you so much! Very helpful!
     
    #5 ca3799, Jul 18, 2024
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2024
  6. ca3799

    ca3799 Junior Member

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    I just don't really want to spend a bunch of money on generators when I already have 3 in the driveway.

    I would indeed have a generator running for days and "standing in the heat" since I'm on the south Texas coast. It's regularly 95 to 100 degrees daily right now and it won't start to cool off here until mid to late October. Thanks for the advice on building a shed over a generator. Most folks here have not been doing that.

    The maintenance I want to avoid is adding gas every 6 or so hours, changing the oil every 100 hours while in use, allowing the generator to rest daily, the regular, scheduled maintenance when a generator is not in use, and the storing oil and gasoline.

    Obtaining gasoline and LP gas was a problem for many folks using generators during our most recent Cat I since most businesses were closed due to lack of power. Hurricane Beryl landed here July 8th as a Cat I hurricane. A Cat 1 should not have shut down the city the way it did. The 4th largest city in the nation shut down for days. It's ten days later now and too many Houstonians are still without power.

    But even $2,000 - $3,000, not to mention $10,000, is out of budget for me right now which is why I'm interested in using the cars I already own. Some generators cost less of course, but why spend even several hundred dollars on a small, high-maintenance one (low wattage, small gas tank, mostly) when I already own something I can use that would give me the same results for a couple of hundred dollars or less per car?

    I do appreciate your comments though! It gives me stuff to think about.

    TY!
     
  7. ca3799

    ca3799 Junior Member

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    Thanks so much! I had read that post of yours already and got a lot of useful information from it- especially on the Instant Pot. That sent me to the kitchen and other places to look at the wattage needs of the appliances I already have. The numbers were surprising!

    Salton 6 Cup Rice Cooker- 300 Watts
    Crock Pot- 250 Watts
    Fancy New Ninja Coffee Pot- 1550 Watts
    Old 5-Cup Coffee Pot- 700 Watts
    Aroma Tea Kettle- 1500 Watts
    Black and Decker Toaster Oven- 1150 Watts
    GE Microwave- 950 Watts
    Electric oven- 2000 Watts best guess (very, very old)
    Electric cooktop- unknown (also very, very old)

    We had used our fireplace and camping gear to cook during the 2021 freezepocalypse we had a while back because it was just too cold to use the camp stove outside.


    Small, 9” round black desk fan- 75 Watts
    Heavy Duty Shop Fan- 100 Watts (best guess)
    20" Box Fan- 75 Watts
    Blue Gooseneck Table Lamp 50 Watts- halogen bulb
    LED Gooseneck Table Lamp with magnifier -5 Watts
    6 Foot Floor Lamp- bulb dependent
    Jim’s Shop/Box fan- may use 100 Watts- best guess

    Thanks so much!
     
  8. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Is that the microwave's power input (usually on a small label somewhere on the back or bottom or inside the door, next to the input voltage rating), or its power output in the actual microwaves it delivers to the food (usually a more prominent number emblazoned on the front)?

    I look now and then for a small microwave that I could run from a 1000 watt inverter. I commonly find compact "700 watt" microwaves, which universally seem to require 1050 watts input power, as if the whole industry got together one day and agreed that every "compact" microwave should have 700 watts output power and 66.67% efficiency.
     
  9. ca3799

    ca3799 Junior Member

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    Hmm, I'm not sure where I got that microwave number now. Regard it with suspicion!
     
  10. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    Long write up but you get there. I would test closer to the rated output of 1000 watts rather than 379 watts. That would verify your inverter electronics and 12v connections are good and won’t start a fire or be unreliable when you really need it. In a real situation you may want house fans, some lights and chargers in addition to the refrig. Ideally the 12v connections should be bolted on and the inverter should have good air flow to prevent overheating or thermal shutdowns.
     
  11. ca3799

    ca3799 Junior Member

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    All very good ideas- thank you! Adding an additional fan did cross my mind and running a more robust test is a very good idea.

    I probably added too much detail in my report but the people who bother to do this (like me) seem to want and need a lot of detail.

    I'm still puzzled by the low Wattage the refrigerator required over what I expected. I added a known quantity- the 40 Watt test lamp- and the inverter reported the 40 Watt increase accurately, suggesting that the Wattage for the fridge was correct.
     
  12. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Fridges have seen a lot of improvement over the years, being a very constant part of the electric bill.

    I had a very old one that I kept in working order for a long time because I could, and then felt sheepish when I replaced it because I would have been money ahead with the electric savings replacing it years earlier.
     
  13. ca3799

    ca3799 Junior Member

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    Iknowwhatcha mean. I limped along an old, slightly undersized, home A/C and after replacing it regretted not just buckling down and doing it sooner.

    Another person who has done something similar with his Prius said that once a modern fridge is cold, it maintains coldness well. It's the cooling of a warm or hot cabinet that uses the power.
     
  14. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    my central air is 16 years old, i really need to look into mini splits
     
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  15. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    My car fridge is dual-input, 120 VAC or 12 VDC. Before a trip, I plug it into the wall and get it cold while packing it, then carry it out to the car cold and plug it in there.
     
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  16. GoodOldBob

    GoodOldBob Junior Member

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    There is a commercial solution available that uses the Prius traction battery to run a custom inverter with several kilowatts capacity. It's plug and play. Check out: HOME | PlugOut Power, Generator for hybrid vehicles | United States

    Perhaps they might have some used units for sale? Because it looks like they want around $1500 for the kit.
     
  17. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Seen on that page:

    31 March 2024: PlugOut Power has sold out of inventory of our unique PlugOut inverters and will close its website in the first week of April. The Principal [Randy Bryan] will continue to provide support/warrantee service for another year on a best efforts, as available, no-liability basis to our customers.

    Customer Support can be requested at: [email protected].

    It has been a privilege and pleasure helping our customers, and those who inquired, through their emergency power planning and implementation issues.

    If anyone wishes to continue with a next generation of products, please contact POP.​

    Used ones might be available. They looked fairly heavy and big.
     
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  18. AzusaPrius

    AzusaPrius Senior Member

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    Sadly he has ended that venture but the system works and I doubt you will find any used ones for sale as they are like gold.

    I have the 3kw version and he no longer has any in stock.
     
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