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Prime vs Prius MPG/Blinkers/EV Questions

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-2022)' started by stevepea, Apr 16, 2017.

  1. stevepea

    stevepea Senior Member

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    a couple quick questions for Prius Prime owners, please.

    I currently don't have a Prime, but will probably buy one within the next couple months (have had a Civic Hybrid for years). I looked at the Chevy Bolt and Volt, and walked away from both for comfort reasons: (a) the Volt had a really uncomfortable, high left footrest & only 42MPG when in gas mode. The Bolt seems like a great car but the seats are terribly (unbelievably) uncomfortable. So it looks like I'll probably be getting a Prime within the next couple months.

    (1) What color are the turn indicator lights (when you signal to make a turn) on the back of the Prime? (In most Prius models they're orange, but are they orange or red on the Prime?) I actually would like to know this :)

    (2) Is there a place where one can download (or view) the large owner's manual for the Prime online before buying? I'd like to be able to read up on it before I walk into a dealer or make my final decision.

    (3) In real-world driving (not downhill driving) what's the average range you've managed in EV-only mode?

    (4) Can the EV be "turned off" if you want to save it to use later in a trip (ie, if you're doing a lot of hilly driving when you first start out, can you make it so it's all gas, then when you get to level sections, can you switch on the EV?)

    (5) Have only 110 (not 240) at my house. I've heard it takes 5-6 hours to charge? My question is: can I charge it overnight simply by plugging it into my 110 socket in my garage? And... once the charging is complete, does it know to automatically stop the charging, or are you supposed to come in and unplug it as soon as the charging is complete? Does the Prime come with everything needed (adapters, plugs, etc) for low-end 110 home charging?

    (6) How does the roominess for the Driver (legroom, side room, etc) compare between the Prime and the normal Prius? Are they about the same?

    (7) Still trying to decide between the Prime or the normal (not Eco, V, or C, but the normal) Prius. I only drive 2-3 times a week, so I don't put a lot of mileage on, but when I do, it's about 120 miles roundtrip (so the EV doesn't really help much on drives like that). And it seems that the MPG between the normal Prius and the Prime are almost about the same. Is it worth the bother and higher cost? (Yes, I know there are rebates -- I'm in California -- but you have to wait until the following year's tax return, still have to pay sales tax on the higher amount, have to have the tax liability, etc). For my kind of driving (no daily commute, but when I do drive, it's usually 120-130 miles), aren't sure there's an advantage to getting the Prime. Feel free to make the case for or against the Prime vs the normal Prius for someone who only drives a couple days a week, usually 120-130 mile trips.

    Thanks in advance for any of the answers!
     
  2. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    1. Yellow/orange
    2. Toyota.com/owners
    3. Others have reported 22-35 miles.
    4. Yes.
    5. Yes, no need to unplug, it comes with everything for 120V charging.
    6. Probably similar.
    7. You can still do 22-35 miles of that range in Ev, double that if you can charge up at the destination before returning.
     
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  3. Samprocat

    Samprocat Active Member

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    I don't have time to answer all your questions
    But i will tell you what i know owning 2 Prime
    I'm 6´9´´ and i feet perfectly fine
    Driving on long distance feels like driving luxury car soft drive good seats
    Yes car will stop on his own once it is full charge
    EV can be saved to be used as you wish usin Eco mode
    You can charge also up to 80% if you use charge mode
    And i get easily 30 miles mix drive 40 MPH city 65 MPH highway
    All city on 65 degrees weather or better i do get easily 35+ city driving
    And yes you get all necessary staff for in house charge
    And taking long trips are almost pleasant as my BMW M 760 minus the acceleration i can get from 12 cyl engine in BMW
    If you go on Prime Advenced
    You will not be disappointed
    MPG if you are focused to get best is easy 60+ MPG
    Or if you keep just driving normal with all things on you will see easy 50+ MPG
    I have for a week 2017 BMW I3 Rex test drive and i have finished buying Prime Advenced
    Only missed thing from I3 is acceleration...other things are much better in prime vs BMW I3
    Bob Wilson have Prime and BMW I3 search

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
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  4. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Before answering, what are you electrical rates and gas prices?

    Bob Wilson
     
  5. Samprocat

    Samprocat Active Member

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    You need to remember that 4500 you get from government and other discounts depends where you living are making your purchase a lot cheaper than what it looks on the bill of sale

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.

    Post #4 is definitely Man that will give best answer to make right decision
    From my view and you are in CA you will definitely benefit from plug in Prime...

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
    #5 Samprocat, Apr 16, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 16, 2017
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  6. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Welcome to PriusChat!

    (1) Amber/orange for the rear (it's the vertical LED portion, beside the reflector)

    (2) 2017 Toyota Prius Prime Owners Manual and Warranty - Toyota Owners Note that there are two types of navigation manuals depending on whether you have the 7" or 11.6" screen, so pick the one that will be equipped on your vehicle

    (3) Can't comment since I don't have one (but so far, winter range has been 20-28 and now that it's warmer in the past month, some have been creeping up to 35 or more)

    (4) Yes. Press the "EV/HV" to go into HV mode. Note that some battery will still be used (cause it's still a hybrid) but it'll be in the typical hybrid fashion (i.e. small)

    (5) Yep, it'll stop charging after it's topped up. Ideally for battery longevity, you want the battery to be topped just before you leave. Hence, the Prius Prime does come a charging schedule that you can program into the car. You can choose whether to "START" charging at the time you set or finish charging by the "DEPARTURE" time. You can also choose to pre-condition the cabin (heat or cool depending on the outside temperature).

    The car comes with everything for 110V charging. A 110V/J1772 charging cable comes with the car.

    (6). Same. They're the same vehicle.

    (7) If you can take advantage of the tax credits, the Prime will be cheaper than the Prius to purchase. (and better equipped)

    In addition, the larger battery pack still counts for something (It's till 25 out of the 120 miles roundtrip that is gasoline-free. 50 miles combined if you're able to charge at your destination). If you're crossing a mountain range, the extra battery pack helps with regenerative braking, allowing you to get a few miles once you reach the bottom. On a regular Prius, the battery will be "full" pretty quickly and you're left using the brake pads on the downhill side.

    In addition, the extra battery pack will help in the summer with hot days as you can run the A/C longer with the engine off. The A/C runs off the hybrid battery (not the engine like a regular car) so if you want that extra cooling without having the engine idle to charge the battery, the Prime works in that sense too. (I'm basically thinking if you were stuck in traffic).

    The Prime has the ability to pre-cool the car too (and if you have the Advanced, you can use your smartphone). Again, taking advantage of that extra battery to pre-cool the car is a luxury. I have a Gen 3 with the Solar Panel Ventilation System and Remote A/C so I appreciate the ability to have a comfortable cabin without using a drop of gasoline (like a remote starter would on a regular car)

    Both cars are warranted for 8 years and 100,000 miles (Does CA still have the higher battery warranty of 10 years/150,000 miles?). Either way, you're set for a good chunk of ownership. IF (and that's a big if), the battery fails, the regular Prius is cheaper to replace. But maybe by then, you'd rather get a new car instead.

    You also get a larger trunk with the Prius (esp. one without a spare tire) so if that's a concern to you, the Prius Liftback will serve you better.
     
  7. Samprocat

    Samprocat Active Member

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    You have it all
    Thanks for the

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
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  8. dalcon95

    dalcon95 Senior Member

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    Turn signal lights are orange on the front and back. Owners manual is available on Toyota's website as a pdf file. You can google Prius Prime owners manual to get it. You can plugin the Prime on a regular 110 volt outlet and charge immediately or set a timer. I charge immediately myself. It shuts off by itself when it is fully charged. Not sure about the leg room. I assume it is the same because the seating is the same. You can select HV mode and save the EV range for later. Keep it mind if you keep the range until you go downhill, you won't be able to capture the added potential EV range you would gain going downhill. You may need to use some of your EV range and see what you can gain the first time on your normal drive to see what you can use before you go downhill to regain the same. You can leave it in EV mode going downhill because it won't use any EV range if the accelerator isn't needed. You can also select EV only mode after going downhill where you want to use the EV range. On the advantages with the Prime, you can gain more EV range going downhill being you have a bigger battery to store the regenerative EV range gained. Also if you can only charge at home one time, can add a difference to your gas mileage compared to a regular Prius. The Prime also has a Charge Mode that will allow you to added to your EV range after you have depleted it and uses the gasoline engine charge it back. It is best to use this mode at highway speeds being you are already using the gasoline engine anyway. Even in regular hybrid operation, the EPA rates the regular Prius with a combined average mpg at 52 while the Prime is rated at 54 mpg. I have also increased my EV range to 36 miles by driving efficiently.

    #1 in Easley,SC
     
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  9. Samprocat

    Samprocat Active Member

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    It is no wonder that Toyota have cal Prius Prime best Prius that Toyota have to offer
    It is really peace of master work to make it better than already good car before
    This was not easy task and have so adorable price
    In my opinion it is cheap for all advancements you get

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
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  10. HPrimeAdvanced

    HPrimeAdvanced Senior Member

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    Yes, California still has better warranty at 150,000 miles and/10 years on battery and smog related components. Also this warranty exists in 8 other (Eastern) states which follow same rules as California.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
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  11. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    In CA one main advantage of Prime is the free HOV incentive for Plug_ins.
    So that's why Prime is in particularly high demand in CA, and prices could be higher in CA for that reason.

    If free HOV is *not* important to you, then it becomes a little harder to decide between Prius and Prime. You'd be picking Prime mainly because you like the idea of plugging in, and willing to give up cargo space and optional spare tire and possibly pay more depending on CA Prime prices.
     
  12. stevepea

    stevepea Senior Member

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    First of all, thank you everyone for the answers!!
    Two last questions:
    (1) Cargo space: don't need a lot of it, but want to put in a non-folding stand, which is 40 inches long, and (just at the top and bottom) about 20 inches wide. Would something 40 inches long fit?
    (2) Does the Prime or Prius come with a spare, or just an inflator kit?

    To answer Bob Wilson: (Question regarding buying the Prime vs the normal Prius):

    Gas prices currently are $2.75 (cheapest, where I buy it) to $2.95 for 87 grade. Of course, like what the electricity rates (below) will soon be doing, I expect gas prices to rise as well.

    Electricity: without being on an "EV" plan (which I probably wouldn't do since this is a smaller capacity battery and I don't drive all that much):
    Tier 1: 16.9c (I'm always in this tier, to usually the 3/4ths mark, as I live alone and try not to waste electricity).
    Tier 2: (if I were to go into it) is something around 23c if I remember right.
    But note that the local power company just asked for (and will probably be granted) a large rate increase for a year from now. So for the future, might be better to assume something like 19c for Tier 1 and a similar increase for Tier 2. Of course gas prices will probably go up too.

    Driving habits: VERY LITTLE "local" driving (I'll walk to a lot of places). I'll drive when I get work, but unfortunately don't work that much anymore (0-2 days a week at the most now). Basically I'd say about 7,000-8,000 miles a year at this point.

    Rebates: I live in California which offers $1,500 cash back for this vehicle (nice, as it's "cash"), and the IRS gives you a tax credit of $4,500 (if you have the tax liability -- I most likely will).

    HOV lane: nice, but not super-important, as a lot of my commute when I do work is on a freeway without the HOV, and the other freeway is (within the next year) about to turn the HOV into a pay system for a good part of it. So there will be times where I could use it here and there, but it's not as important to me as it might be to others.

    Feelings: my heart wants an electric car (though the Prime isn't much of an EV if, when you drive, your commute is 120 miles). Still, it's something. Like the HOV lane, it'd be a nice feeling for me to have a least a little bit of an electric car, though if the equation tilts a lot to getting just a normal Prius, it won't break my heart (just as long as I don't go back to a normal old gas car!)

    My choices are either the normal Prius (lower or mid range model, hopefully with navi, but don't really want a lot of fancy options) vs the Middle Prime model (the one with the larger screen, but not the fancier Advanced model).
     
    #12 stevepea, Apr 17, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2017
  13. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    (1) With the seats up? No. Here are the dimensions PRIME TRUNK SPACE | Page 4 | PriusChat

    (2) Prime = Tire Repair Kit

    Prius Two, Three, Three Touring = Compact spare tire
    Prius Two Eco, Four, Four Touring = Tire Repair Kit


    Yeah the Prime Premium is the sweet spot for features vs. price.

    A Prius Two is very well equipped for 2017. Prius Three adds nav. Prius Three Touring adds a few nice touches like blue contrast stitching on the seats, blue vent surround (vs. matte black on Two or chrome on all other trim levels) as well as 17" alloys and LED foglights.
     
  14. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Ok, this is enough to evaluate the tradeoff between electricity and gas:
    • $2.95 / 55 MPG ~= $0.054 per mile, gasoline
    • $0.23 / 4 kWh/mile ~= $0.058 per mile, electric
    Prius plug-in owner @bisco had pointed out there are places where the local electrical rate achieves parity with gasoline in a cost per mile. In these cases, solar panels may become a reasonable response.

    In Huntsville AL, $2.15/gal and $0.10/kWh with our Prius Prime gives:
    • $2.15 / 55 MPG ~= $0.039 / mile, gasoline
    • $0.10 / 4 kWh/mile ~= $0.025 /mile, electric
    It is different for our BMW i3-REx:
    • $2.30 / 40 MPG ~= $0.057 / mile, gasoline
    • $0.10 / 3.4 kWh/mile ~= $0.029 / mile, electric
    From the EPA fuel economy site:
    • Prius Prime - 25 kWh / 100 miles = 4 miles/kWh
    • BMW i3-REx - 29 kWh / 100 miles = 3.4 miles/kWh
    • Chevy Volt - 31 kWh / 100 miles = 3.2 miles/kWh
    Bob Wilson
     
    #14 bwilson4web, Apr 17, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2017
  15. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    Prime has no spare tire....as far as I know, no USA Plug-In has a spare tire.
    Prius spare tire is optional depending which level you get.
    Since you do not need so much cargo space, it would probably make the most sense to go with the +spare tire version, I think Level 2 or 3 based on what you said, but it does not come on Level 2 eco or 4.
     
  16. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    get the prime and add a spare on the hatch deck if you want.
     
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  17. Captmiddy

    Captmiddy Active Member

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    @bwilson4web Your numbers are a little off, but the values are correct. It is 3.4m/kWh not 3.4kWh/mile. The resulting statement is correct though and helpful to see. My rates at my house actually make it cheaper to buy gas than to charge, but I have solar panels so I charge anyway since I paid $0.08 per kWh for Solar production which on good days outpaces my usage. So on days that I out produce usage, I get to drive at $0.02 per mile which is still better than $0.04 per mile. Last year I over produced electricity to the tune of 600 kWh, I am hoping this year to break even at least.
     
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  18. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Sorry, allergies here. I knew something was wrong but between sniffles and coughing ... it escaped me.

    Bob Wilson
     
  19. stevepea

    stevepea Senior Member

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    Thank you again, everyone for the answers!

    If I may... just a couple quick questions, having to do with which TRIM level of the Prime to get.
    It's between the PLUS and the PREMIUM.
    I normally opt for the basic trim level (don't care for a lot of extra features in general), and I also prefer cloth seats over leather/softex (don't care about spills and cloth doesn't get hot in the hot sun like leather/softex would).

    But I did have only two concerns with getting the basic PLUS version over the PREMIUM:

    (1) THE DISPLAY: I realize it's a 7" vs 11.6" display. But other than the larger size, are you really giving up anything important by getting the 7" version? Truthfully, I'd almost rather have a smaller one (less distracting).

    (2) As far as the Navigation, will the Navi speak to you? (ie, "Turn Right in 500 feet") or must you constantly "watch" the display to see what to do next? If it will speak to you, then the smaller display isn't so bad, I think.

    (3) Keyless Entry: Here's the one thing it might be better to get the premium, as I often am putting equipment in the back seat when I enter my car. But I had a question about how this works on the Prime. Toyota's website says the basic PLUS will keyless the driver's door, while the PREMIUM will keyless 3 doors. If I wind up getting the PLUS, how would that work then? It would sense me coming, and the driver's door would open... how would I then open the back door to put equipment onto the back seat? Is there a "door open" button on the remote, or must I reach into the car and find an unlock switch on the car?

    Honestly, for around $1800 difference (the price difference around here between the two trims) I'm gravitating towards the basic PLUS. I like cloth seats better, as long as the Navi will speak I'd almost rather have the smaller screen, and didn't see many other features that the Premium adds that I'd be interested in. Probably the only thing might be the keyless entry. I'd say 80% of the time I get in the car I have to put equipment in the back seat. Keyless on the PLUS apparently is only driver's side door. But I've never had keyless before (ie, I'm used to pressing a button to open up the doors on my current car), so maybe it's not so big a deal if I can just push a button on the remote to open the back door before I get there.

    (4) Are there buttons on the remote to open all the doors? if I get the basic PLUS trim and want to open up the left rear door?

    (5) If you walk away from the car, does it automatically lock all the doors?
    If so, can you set it so it doesn't lock all the doors when you leave the car? (ie, if I park in my garage at night and I don't need or want to lock the doors). I've never had keyless before, but there's absolutely no need to lock the doors when I'm parked in my garage at night.

    For those of you who have the Prime, can you set it up so it DOESN'T lock the doors as you walk away?

    Again, thanks for all the answers, folks! It's really helping!
     
  20. dalcon95

    dalcon95 Senior Member

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    On all trim levels, the remote can unlock all doors. One press unlocks the driver's door. Two presses unlocks all the doors. If you want to use the keyless entry on the Plus trim, the only the driver's door will respond to you touching it. The touch can be programmed to open just the driver's door or all doors. You would have to goto the driver's door first then the the other door you want to open. With the Premium trim, you can skip the processes of going to the driver's door and go instead to the back hatch or front passenger's door to unlock by touching the door. The doors don't lock themselves and the hatch doesn't open or close by itself. You have to use you hand(s) to open and close the hatch. The only time the doors lock themselves is if you unlock the doors but don't open them, they will lock again in a period of time. This is done for security purposes just in case you accidentally push the button and didn't know it and the doors stay unlocked.

    #1 in Easley,SC